3.5 only: Help me build an Optimal, non-evil Duskblade, from L6 up.

[eleazzaar]

My Shapeshifting Druid just died tragically and young.  My personal rule is that any replacement characters need to be significantly different, so i'm looking at a Duskblade.

My goal is to contribute to the party at all levels (not just have something cool at L20). I'm going for a balance between melee, and extending his spell casting. The character will start at L6, and attributes are a 35 pt buy.  Setting: Forgotten Realms

EDIT: Also, The campaign won't work for evil PCs. And no Flaws.

Allowed Sources: (scroll)

Code: [Select]

BoED    Book of Exalted Deeds
BoVD    Book of Vile Darkness
CoR     Champions of Ruin
CoV     Champions of Valor
CoS:W   City of Splendors: Waterdeep
        Cityscape
CAdv    Complete Adventurer
CA      Complete Arcane
CC      Complete Champion
CD      Complete Divine
CM      Complete Mage
CP      Complete Psionic
CS      Complete Scoundrel
CW      Complete Warrior
        Dungeonscape
EPH     Expanded Psionics Handbook
        Frostburn
HoB     Heroes of Battle
HoH     Heroes of Horror
MoF     Magic of Faerun
MH      Miniatures Handbook
PH      Planar Handbook
PH2     Player’s Handbook II
PGtF    Players Guide to Faerun
RoD     Races of Destiny
RoF     Races of Faerun
RoS     Races of Stone
RotDr   Races of the Dragon
RotW    Races of the Wild
        Sandstorm
SC      Spell Compendium
        Stormwrack
ToB     Tome of Battle (feats not classes)
ToM     Tome of Magic   (feats not classes)
        Underdark

Some select Unearthed Arcana and Dragon Magazine
The Party consists of a

competent buffing wizard
dwarf cleric
ranged rogue
monk/fighter/ninja
bard/druid/rogue/fighter

I've gone over Dictum's Guide, and found it very helpful.  Here's what i'm leaning towards.



Human
ST 16, DX 12, CN 14, IQ 14, WS 14, CHA 9 (includes the +1 at 4th level)

Feats:

Power Attack,
Spiked Chain Proficiency
Touchstone
Knowledge Devotion

Class: Duskblade 5, Sandshaper 1
Thereafter i'll probably go to Duskblade 13



The DM has concerns about weather a duskblade can cast with a 2-handed weapon, and is not eager to allow touchstones in the campaign.  I've made my case for those, but we'll see.  If those get nixed, that will open up new feat slots.


I think the first thing feat i'd substitute is Arcane Disciple.  Am i right in thinking that Knowledge Devotion is more important, so that I'll choose an Arcane Disciple domain from the subset of deities that have the Knowledge domain?  Time and Travel look good, subject to alignment availably, and weather the power works for non-clerics.

EDIT:  I just realized that this just adds to the spells, that the dusk blade *could* learn, not nearly so attractive.

Also the source i was looking at often has the domain powers described as: "For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess..."

Is there an errata or ruling that opens that up to non-clerics?

Thanks for any advice, in advance

[Jackinthegreen]

Might want to put this in Min-Max.

[eleazzaar]

Might want to put this in Min-Max.

Ah, OK.

How to you work around here?  Do I ask the mods to move it, or do make a new post?

[linklord231]

If he disallows casting while using a 2h weapon, point out that he also just disallowed wizards from using staffs.  The FAQ repeatedly says that it's entirely possible to let go with one hand, use that hand to perform some action, and then put the hand back on the weapon. 

For feats, consider Arcane Strike.  You have a ton of spells per day, and probably aren't going to use all of them.  For similar reasons, look at Versatile Spellcaster. 

[wotmaniac]

For feats, consider Arcane Strike.  You have a ton of spells per day, and probably aren't going to use all of them.  For similar reasons, look at Versatile Spellcaster. 

+∞

[eleazzaar]

Thanks, Sinfire Titan for moving this to the right place.

For feats, consider Arcane Strike.  You have a ton of spells per day, and probably aren't going to use all of them.  For similar reasons, look at Versatile Spellcaster.

Yeah, arcane strike is at the top of my wish list.  He doesn't qualify until duskblade 9 however.


My GM recommended "battle caster" to allow heavy armor without arcane spell failure.  That seems strong, but I haven't seen it mentioned in discussion on the duskblade, is there a downside?

EDIT: Never mind, i just read past it in the guide

[jeffrie]

bard/druid/rogue/fighter? So close to Fochlucan Lyrist and not going for it? Does he not know that FL exist? (complete adventurer) If he retrains the Fighter level he can get +1 BAB plus dual casting in FL .

As for Duskblade, I have one, and have him set for spike chain tripping, with AoO. He's a badass, but a high Dex is needed to make it work best. Imagine tripping, AND Arcane Strike....

The Duskblade is cool, and fun. The trick is to add touch spells in any way you DM lets you . That and Versatile Caster, which will let you use your unused spells for more Arcane Strike, etc  .

My four year old daughter was sitting in my lap, and she insisted on putting all those smileys in.  lol

[eleazzaar]

bard/druid/rogue/fighter? So close to Fochlucan Lyrist and not going for it? Does he not know that FL exist?

Yeah, FL is what he's going for.

As for Duskblade, I have one, and have him set for spike chain tripping, with AoO. He's a badass, but a high Dex is needed to make it work best. Imagine tripping, AND Arcane Strike....

Why a high dex?

It looks like to me anytime DX is used for tripping, ST can be used instead., or do you use the high DX for something else?

[DancingFish]

Combat Reflexes feat. You gain additional AoOs equal to your DEX mod.

[eleazzaar]

Combat Reflexes feat. You gain additional AoOs equal to your DEX mod.

Ah, gotcha.  Is that going to be wasted if I only have a +1 DX mod?  I could take points away from WS to raise DX.  Originally i wanted a higher WS for Arcane Disciple, but now that i understand it better, i'm not sure about that feat.  I guess i'd need to find a "must have" spell.

[phaedrusxy]

Long ago I made this dragonborn warforged duskblade build, but wound up never using it... Not sure if it will be helpful, but you're welcome to take a look. I did quite a bit of research building it.

[Rebel7284]

The optimal Duskblade build is probably something like Duskblade 3/Paladin of Tyranny 2/Ur Priest X for channeling fun cleric spells.  However, such a build doesn't have much actual Duskblade...

[eleazzaar]

Long ago I made this dragonborn warforged duskblade build...

Looks cool.

The optimal Duskblade build is probably something like Duskblade 3/Paladin of Tyranny 2/Ur Priest X for channeling fun cleric spells.  However, such a build doesn't have much actual Duskblade...

I'm OK with a build that doesn't actually have a lot of duskblade levels in it, as long as it is recognizably duskblade-ish.

I forgot to mention, this is a good/neutral PC only campaign.  Is there benefit to a dusk blade taking non-evil paladin levels, or was there just something special about the paladin of tyranny?

But speaking of channeling cleric spells, i wonder if by raw that works --or channeling the sand shaper stuff. I mean the Arcane channeling description allows spells from any source, but does it cause Arcane Spell Failure?
The Duskblade armored mage description says: "This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class."

Is there a difference here between a spell casting class and a spell casting PrC?

[altpersona]

Duskblad 5/ab champ 2 / Divine Crusader 2 / divine 7 (theurge?) / Ab champ 3 / hierophant 1

~ 16+ bab, 9th lvl divine, armor casting

[Rebel7284]

Long ago I made this dragonborn warforged duskblade build...

Looks cool.

The optimal Duskblade build is probably something like Duskblade 3/Paladin of Tyranny 2/Ur Priest X for channeling fun cleric spells.  However, such a build doesn't have much actual Duskblade...

I'm OK with a build that doesn't actually have a lot of duskblade levels in it, as long as it is recognizably duskblade-ish.

I forgot to mention, this is a good/neutral PC only campaign.  Is there benefit to a dusk blade taking non-evil paladin levels, or was there just something special about the paladin of tyranny?

But speaking of channeling cleric spells, i wonder if by raw that works --or channeling the sand shaper stuff. I mean the Arcane channeling description allows spells from any source, but does it cause Arcane Spell Failure?
The Duskblade armored mage description says: "This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class."

Is there a difference here between a spell casting class and a spell casting PrC?

In case of the Ur Priest build, Paladin is useful for skills and base save bonus that Ur Priest requires.  Also then you can apply your charisma both to saves and to your rebuke undead pool size.

In case of Ur Priest, Arcane Spell failure is not an issue, it's a divine spellcaster... in general, yes it would be unless you had another way to get around spell failure chance.

A prestige class is a type of class, typically with requirements.  Some classes give their own casting, some advance existing casting.  I believe spellcasting classes typically refers to either granting or advancing.

[eleazzaar]

In case of Ur Priest, Arcane Spell failure is not an issue, it's a divine spellcaster... in general, yes it would be unless you had another way to get around spell failure chance.

A prestige class is a type of class, typically with requirements.  Some classes give their own casting, some advance existing casting.  I believe spellcasting classes typically refers to either granting or advancing.

Sand Shaper is a bit of an odd PrC, for while it advances casting with "+1 level of existing arcane spell casting class" it also adds some spells:
"If you are a spontaneous caster (such as a sorcerer), these spells are available to you like any other spell you know."

I was hoping there was an errata or ruling to clarify, but this is probably one of those many things that comes down to a GM ruling.

[kitep]

But speaking of channeling cleric spells, i wonder if by raw that works --or channeling the sand shaper stuff. I mean the Arcane channeling description allows spells from any source, but does it cause Arcane Spell Failure?
The Duskblade armored mage description says: "This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class."

You can indeed channel divine spells and spells from other classes such as the Sand Shaper PRC.
From the FAQ

    Can a duskblade channel divine spells with arcane
channeling? What about arcane spells gained from other
classes?
    Yes and yes.

But that's a good but disappointing catch on the armor thing.  The arcane spell failure chance does apply to non-duskblade spells.  But in this case you're in luck.  The Sand Shaper PRC adds new spells to your duskblade list, so ASF does not apply.  And ASF doesn't ever apply to divine spells.

[phaedrusxy]

If your DM doesn't budge on casting with a 2-handed weapon, you might consider this feat.

[eleazzaar]

If your DM doesn't budge on casting with a 2-handed weapon, you might consider this feat.

Yeah, but i gotta start to wonder if the spiked chain is worth two of my eight feats to simply use it.


A few crazy ideas:
1) I wonder if it makes any sense to start with a single level of Spell-thief so that you can steal  spells to power your arcane strike.  On the face of it loosing 1d6 now for 1d4 next turn is a bad trade, but, arcane strike can add that bonus for one round, not just one hit.  There's the other advantage that you get 16 more skill points to bump up knowledge skills for knowledge devotion, and whatever else.

2) What about starting with a single  level of wild shaping ranger?, you would again get the sixteen skill points to pump up his three knowledge skills, and +10 ft to your move.  Obviously no wild shaping, but No loss of BAB, and move speed often seems critical in our games.

I'd be more open to the idea of a dip if sand shaper falls through.  Two dips starts to feel like too many delays.


3) The Beguiler is also a Int Caster than doesn't have ASP for light armor. It would be cool if there was a way to combine it with the Duskblade that didn't produce something inferior to either.  Unfortunately the Beguiler list is very short on useful spells for arcane channeling.

[jeffrie]

While your listing alternatives/dips for first level for skills, don't forget martial rogue which gives a feat also (for two levels in fact). Makes for fun low level feat access.