Making the most of Attacks of Opportunity (AoOs) discussion

[Jackinthegreen]

Handbook is here.

Basically, if it's an offensive option for the character to gain more AoOs, get bonuses to attacks with them, or use them in new ways, I'd like it to be put in the handbook.  Defensive options against enemy AoOs (including using them to your advantage like with Elusive Target) will be in a separate handbook/index.

[Captnq]

The quintessental combination is, of course, Robilar's Gambit + Karmic Strike, get as many AoO's as you can get, and a weapon that increases your hit points when you do damage.

Someone looks like they are going to hit you, You get an AoO.
Someone Hits you, you get an AoO.

The two combined lower your AC by 8, and you take +4 damage, but if your weapon gives you HPs, it won't really matter, now will it?

[Jackinthegreen]

Yeah, usually the weapon enchantment for that is the Wrathful Healing ability in Enemies and Allies page 20.  +3 to heal for half damage dealt by the weapon.

Vampiric from Unapproachable East page 55 is another way to get HP and even temp HP, but it only working against living enemies and requiring them to make a save just for 1d4 healing is kinda crappy without ways to get many more attacks.

The MIC version of Vampiric on page 45 thankfully does away with the stupid save and boosts the healing to 1d6, but it still oly works against living opponents.

Souldrinking from MIC 44 is also a pain to use because it only works on crits and then gives 5 temp HP.  Crit builds and AoO builds don't really mesh together.

[zook1shoe]

In one of the Rokugan books, there's a Combat Reflexes type feat that uses your Wis.to determine your bonus AoOs

[Jackinthegreen]

I remember seeing your post in the 2nd party Fun Finds thread.  Is that what you're referring to, or is this one from Rokugan something else?

I'd like to eventually get all of Dragon Mag covered as well as the big 2nd party stuff like Dragonlance and Rokugan.

[zook1shoe]

oops... yeah that one

there are a bunch of good feats in Rokugan. i made a word doc file with all those, Planescape, Dark Sun, and was working on Dragonlance.

do you want any of them?

[Jackinthegreen]

Sure.  Rokugan first, Dragonlance once you're done with it.  Dark Sun and Planescape a bit later once I've familiarized myself with them.

[zook1shoe]

here is a zip folder of them (finished the dragonlance one too)

Greater Combat Reflexes + Double Hit = 6 attacks per AoO trigger

[Jackinthegreen]

Alrighty, I'll look through them to see what can be added.

As far as how Greater Combat Reflexes and Double Hit go, the language is such that a permissive DM might allow the same number of offhand AoOs as primary AoOs, but a less permissive one would simply say it only allows for the one extra hit if Improved/Greater Combat Reflexes are allowed at all.

Great, now a four-armed AoO monster is in my head...  And a feat idea comes to mind.

[zook1shoe]

I fell like it means that you get a TWF style hits per AoO taken, using only a single use each time. I can see DMs not wanting it to work this way, cuz it can be pretty powerful.

are you adding the couple options for receiving alternate AoO triggers?

(Robilar's Gambit and Defensive Strike come to mind)

[Jackinthegreen]

Defensive Sweep and Robilar's Gambit are already in there under Player's Handbook 2.  Likewise, Karmic Strike is in under Complete Warrior.

[zook1shoe]

Doh

[altpersona]

idk exactly about the handbook discussion threads, but i gots a dumbish question   


its my understanding that you can only take one aoo per target in a round without some special thing to over rule that, other than Double Hit?

also, who ever wrote Greater C.R. didnt seem to have read Imp. C.R. that it has as a prereq.

(click to show/hide)

Imp C.R.

There is no limit to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in one round.

Greater C.R.

You still cannot exceed your normal maximum number of attacks of opportunity in a round.

its hard to exceed infinite.

[zook1shoe]

This helps your question...

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity

If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

you get one AoO per trigger.

say someone fails to tumble through your area, this triggers 1 AoO. You can either use it or wait. If you attack, you then cannot make another AoO when he fails to cast defensively in your area. Combat Reflexes allows you to take both opportunities.

this is a trick we use in the gladiator game in my sig. Your AoOs w Robilar's Gambit be just as devastating as your foes full attack. Possibly even killing him before he finishes his attacks. Kharmic strike would allow 2 AoOs per foe attack which can get uglier w Double Hit

[ketaro]

idk exactly about the handbook discussion threads, but i gots a dumbish question   


its my understanding that you can only take one aoo per target in a round without some special thing to over rule that, other than Double Hit?

also, who ever wrote Greater C.R. didnt seem to have read Imp. C.R. that it has as a prereq.

(click to show/hide)

Imp C.R.

There is no limit to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in one round.

Greater C.R.

You still cannot exceed your normal maximum number of attacks of opportunity in a round.

its hard to exceed infinite.

zook, I think you missed it but altpersona actually quoted the Epic Level Handbook's version of Improved Combat Reflexes which allows infinite AoO attempts. The Dragon magazine version of Improved Combat Reflexes (which is not an Epic feat) does not have the quoted line.

The Dragon Magazine version is the one that is a pre-req for Greater Combat Reflexes.

[Jackinthegreen]

idk exactly about the handbook discussion threads, but i gots a dumbish question   


its my understanding that you can only take one aoo per target in a round without some special thing to over rule that, other than Double Hit?

also, who ever wrote Greater C.R. didnt seem to have read Imp. C.R. that it has as a prereq.

(click to show/hide)

Imp C.R.

There is no limit to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in one round.

Greater C.R.

You still cannot exceed your normal maximum number of attacks of opportunity in a round.

its hard to exceed infinite.

zook, I think you missed it but altpersona actually quoted the Epic Level Handbook's version of Improved Combat Reflexes which allows infinite AoO attempts. The Dragon magazine version of Improved Combat Reflexes (which is not an Epic feat) does not have the quoted line.

The Dragon Magazine version is the one that is a pre-req for Greater Combat Reflexes.

What Ketaro said.  Adding onto that, I have specifically pointed out in the handbook that the Dragon 340 Improved Combat Reflexes is a non-epic feat and is not the same as the Epic Level Handbook version which is listed under the 3.0 stuff.  That is one of the reasons I have links to all of the feats: So mixups don't happen.

I suppose I ought to give better descriptions for the feats though.

[ketaro]

It looks pretty hastily tossed together as just a long list of urls.

Doing "Combat Reflexes" instead of
"http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/combat-reflexes--403/ Combat Reflexes" would give you more room for descriptions and make it look better 

[Jackinthegreen]

Well, comparatively-speaking it probably is considered hastily put together since I spent maybe an hour or two looking through dndtools and the PDFs and such for "opportunity" in case there was something that modified an Attack of Opportunity for offensive purposes, plus I got plenty of defensive stuff too.  I haven't gotten through all the PDFs I have though, so I've easily overlooked some stuff.

Basically I was on a roll and put it up, then fell off the wagon and haven't really tried to climb back on since.  But I think I'll take a short ride to make the links proper and all that.

By the way, if anyone has some builds for this I'd be happy to post them.  And I'll likely add rules citations for other stuff such as defensive casting and all that.

[zook1shoe]

Most of mine are gestalt and/or use aptitude cheese. So they might be a little overboard

[Jackinthegreen]

I'm fine with putting up builds that go overboard, but I will add notes warning that certain mechanics are likely cheesy.