Ideas for using Pyrokineticist

[Epsilon Rose]

Hey everyone, a campaign I've been playing in  is going through a reset soon and I'm toying with different possibilities for my new character and I'd like some help sorting them out. One of the things that caught my attention recently is the Pyrokineticist and it's variants. I know it's generally not considered one of the best PrCs, but it was pointed out that their lash counts as both a ranged weapon (since it's a ranged touch attack) and a melee weapon (since its benefits from any feats a normal whip benefits from). It also targets touch AC, which is nice. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure how I can take advantage of that or how useful any of it actually is.

One idea I had was stacking improved rapid shot + Lasher + either TWF or Power Attack for an obscene number of attacks. I think, in principle, that works, but it feels a bit one-trick (multi attack for lots of hp damage and hope they don't have the appropriate energy resistance [maybe go with sonic]). That said, I'm not sure what I'd base it on and my previous character also did the multi-attack dance (via natural weapons) and she was very good at it, so I'm not sure if I want to do the same thing again.

The other idea I had was to combine it with Tome of Battle and get 20/25ft reach, touch attack, maneuvers. I just don't know how useful THAT actually is, especially when you aren't getting str or dex to damage.

Overall, I would like some help figuring out how a pyrokineticist can be used. At this point, I don't need a full build so much as a sketch that I can fill in. I'm not a very big fan of Vancian magic or traditional 3.5 combat (i.e. I stand there and full attack it every round). I am, however, a big fan of subsystems like Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Binding and Warlocks, so I might try using one of those as a base. I'd be fine with using a partial or fixed list caster or a psionic class as an aid for doing other things, but I'd rather not have them as a main focus (although I can probably be convinced otherwise for anything short of a t1 or t2). One of the things that's really worrying me is I'd like to have some uses outside of 'melee' combat and I'm not sure if this route allows for that.

The DM allows any official book with the exception of Unearthed Arcana. This includes Dragon Magazine. He will not allow any homebrew. We're starting at level 9 with a 46 point buy and significantly above WBL, but I don't know the exact value. (We're pooling the wealth from our previous game and then dividing it evenly.)

Any help or ideas for this would be greatly appreciated, even if it's just to talk me down from using a Pyrokineticist.
Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Epsilon Rose

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Here's the Pyro handbook
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6073

Here's the "other" Pyro handbook
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1531


(wait , maybe I got those backwards)

[Epsilon Rose]

Here's the Pyro handbook
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6073

Here's the "other" Pyro handbook
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1531


(wait , maybe I got those backwards)

Thanks, but I've already seen those. They're a bit... Sparse. In particular, they don't list any base classes or much in the way of strategies (though one has some builds from a GitP iron chef contest). Similarly, they only list two PrCs, the lasher and a monk specific one.

As I said, I was hoping for help picking a base class and future progression. While Lasher looks useful, I don't know if taking a full 10 levels is always the best plan.

[lieronet]

Look into dipping Shiba Protector. Heavy feat tax, but it adds Wis to attack and damage rolls, which is something you really, really want. Add Intuitive Attack (see if your DM will handwave the ridiculous Exalted baggage) for Wis x2 to attack and Wis to damage. All the feats and the Wis thing means you would probably want to base Psychic Warrior, although Ardent wouldn't be bad either.

[snakeman830]

Remember that the PrC does not require having manifesting ability, just a power point reserve.  Should open up a large number of options for you.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Carnivore (always) has some builds.
http://community.wizards.com/comment/20308226#comment-20308226
There's 2 more builds 2 posts down from that one.

Sono-kineticist variant in Mind's Eye, has the fewest
monsters with resistance to the energy type.

I could see something working like
raw Ardent 10 / Pyro 3 / Monk 1 / Anarchic Initiate Y
with Practiced Manifester feat and Tashalatora feat.
Not necessarily in that order.
Basic and straightforward.

[Jackinthegreen]

The catch with sonic damage is it's very easily negated with a Silence effect.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

I made this build a while ago

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3264.0

[Epsilon Rose]

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I have an idea now, let me know what you think of this build.

Code: [Select]

Sword sage x/[something]-kineticist 1 or 4/ Lasher 2/Shiba Protector 1 I'm a bit worried about being feat starved (I really wish there was a school that used whips), particularly at the beginning, so I might throw in a level or two of fighter. I figure getting 20ft touch attack maneuvers will be nice and wisdom to attack (twice if I pick up Zen Archery), damage, and AC should be nice. Also, I'm not sure if 4 levels of Kineticist are worth it for the bolts and damage boost.

Carnivore (always) has some builds.
http://community.wizards.com/comment/20308226#comment-20308226

Yeah, I'm thinking either Sono, for the lack of resistance, Acid, because regen, or Electric, few resistances and not silence-able.

Quick question: that page you linked seems suggest that weapons-a-flame is a 2 level dip, but the srd shows it at level 4. Is there an alternate version that gets it sooner?

Edit: Actually, I might do a Psywar dip instead of a fighter dip. Hrm...

[linklord231]

I would recommend Warblade instead of Swordsage.  Full BAB means more Power Attack damage. 

[Epsilon Rose]

I would recommend Warblade instead of Swordsage.  Full BAB means more Power Attack damage.

True, but three things: Swordsage lets me be more wis sad (including, possibly getting wis to attack twice), I'm not sure if or when I'll be able to pick up power attack, and it's already a touch attack.

[linklord231]

The fact that it's a touch attack is precisely why you should take Power Attack 
You're going to hit 9 times out of 10 regardless, so why not get some extra damage out of it?

[Epsilon Rose]

The fact that it's a touch attack is precisely why you should take Power Attack 
You're going to hit 9 times out of 10 regardless, so why not get some extra damage out of it?

Oh, I agree. Like I said, it's just a matter of fitting it in.

Edit: And now I'm doing build permutations. I need to figure out 3 things. How useful are Weapon Afire & Fire Bolt, Shiba's No Thought, and 2 levels of Lasher? The way I've counted, I can get any 2 of those. I think I could also get Firebolt + Shiba + 1 level of lasher, but I don't think the fire bolt on it's own is worth it.