Author Topic: "Samurai" optimization  (Read 6366 times)

Offline Sinpoder

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"Samurai" optimization
« on: June 01, 2014, 01:43:51 AM »
Ok... so I am looking for a long term strategy for this 'samurai' character I am currently making. He is a 5th level Warblade that uses Diamond Mind and uses Iaijustu focus. This character is a Lawful Good warblade that I am hopefully going to take into Iaijustu Master here soon. This is the exact character I am using at this moment in time, below.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=858558

There is a sheet to make this slightly easier. I am wondering what I need to get my hands on to make this build.. at least a decent tier 3. As far as I know, all DnD books are open minus BoED and BoVD. There are no major Houserules that I am aware of. If there are any other questions I would be more then happy to answer them the best I can.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2014, 05:48:20 PM »
Warblade on its own is Tier 3.  Owing to Iaijutsu Master not progressing maneuvers, the furthest I'd go in it is 5 to get Charisma on each IF die.  The Canny Defense class feature will be useless to you because it's so much better to get even light armor for +3 AC.  None of the other class features are dependent on not wearing armor, so wearing it will help you much more than it might hurt you.  The 8th level ability to hit twice with a single standard action is made totally useless by maneuvers, and the 10th level ability to get an attack on the surprise round will be quite meaningless.  The 9th level bonus feat will likewise be useless, or even worse than useless because there are better classes you could take instead such as fighter or warblade.

Keep in mind Item Familiar normally requires the character to be at least 3rd level.

I take it "Improved Int" means Improved Initiative?

The Blade Meditation feat normally can't be taken until 4th level.  There is no "weapon meditation" feat.  Also, it looks like you're thinking it counts as the Weapon Focus feat, but it does not.  Were you planning on taking Weapon Focus (katana) at 6th level?

Warblades do not get a bonus feat at 1st level, nor is Iaijutsu Focus a class skill for them.  How are you getting it as a class skill?  And how are you getting +11 misc to Iaijutsu Focus?

Offline Sinpoder

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2014, 06:27:40 PM »
It appears I made acouple of mistakes... I fixed those problems and made most of my writing more clear. I am sorry for the confusion.

I was under the assumption that the Warblade ability basically replaces the need to waste the feat on Weapon Focus, as long as I don't change it which I never plan to, but after taking another look at it I read it completely wrong and I will be taking Weapon Focus (katana) at 6th level unless you don't think it would be worth it.

I got it as a class skill by DM rule, because I liked the ability and I showed it to them and they didn't have a problem with it. I got a +11 in it due to Item Familar, but I will be changing that as I think I did my math wrong on that slightly. It is now only a +8 Misc.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2014, 06:52:51 PM »
The way Item Familiar works is you can give it skill points, and those points are no on it instead of on you.  So you could give it your 8 skill points in Iaijutsu Focus.  Then you'd get a +1 bonus to any skill for every 3 skill ranks invested into the item familiar, so if you had 8 on it you would just get a +2.

So you've got 24 or so skill ranks on it to get the +8 to Iaijutsu Focus?  Good start.  Hopefully your DM isn't the type to screw you over by having your weapon destroyed.

Weapon Focus to get into Iaijutsu Master would still be worth it if IF is such a big part of your playstyle.  Like I said though, only go 5 levels in at most since everything after that is bad compared to more levels in warblade.

Here is a compendium on making your enemies flat-footed, since you'll need that condition to get IF damage.

Offline Sinpoder

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2014, 06:57:55 PM »
Yes.. I do know that rule :) I did do that math correctly at the very least so I am glad about that.

It is going to basically be the most important part of my play style... only due to the fact that my DM has forbidden me from playing any kind of Spellcasting kind of class due to... well I am sure you can figure it out. I will read that handbook right now.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2014, 07:28:10 PM »
Yeah, spellcasters can definitely screw up the game for some DMs.

As far as the rest of your levels go, just going straight warblade after the five IM levels will do fine for you, though I'd recommend getting Iron Heart Surge and some other Iron Heart stuff if you can.

Offline Sinpoder

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2014, 12:09:02 AM »
Yep... any other pieces of advice you have? Items and stuff because I don't really know ToB that well either.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 12:28:18 AM »
To be honest, I don't actually know ToB all that well either since I've never actually played a class that uses its rules.  However, I do know some more links that might help you out.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12795 is a list of a lot of armor and weapon enhancements.  You'll definitely want to have your sword enchanted with the Martial Discipline enhancement on pages 148 and 149 of Tome of Battle.

There's a fighter ACF called "Hit And Run" in Drow of the Underdark that trades the fighter's heavy armor and tower shield proficiencies for +2 initiative and adding dex to damage against flat-footed enemies.  However, it's somewhat meant for drow, but technically doesn't require actually being drow.  It might be worthwhile instead of a warblade level, if your DM allows it.  If you want to look at other alternate class features, see http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8732.0.

Items to boost your stats will be nice, particularly dex, con, and cha for you.

Look through http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items to see what's usually regarded as necessary magic items.  http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-%28Equipment-Handbook%29 has a bunch of useful magic and non-magic items.

Offline Sinpoder

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 12:32:30 AM »
Thank you very much :)

Offline Bard

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2014, 08:09:28 AM »
Remember that being a melee you still need flight and ideally some form of move-action teleport / freedom of movement, or you'll be rendered patetically useless in most combats.

I'm unsure about this since what I played mostly a Swordsage using maneuvers as ways to get flatfooted and generic utility and not for attacking, but I think that Iaijitsu Master might be worth bringing at level 8 to have two strikes as a standard action when you attack, doubling your damage. I don't think there's any strike that can get you the same increase in damage as a 9d6+9xCha.
If you plan to attack mostly with manouvers tho, you are better off leaving it at 5 levels.
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Offline muktidata

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2014, 05:01:35 PM »
Remember that being a melee you still need flight and ideally some form of move-action teleport / freedom of movement, or you'll be rendered patetically useless in most combats.

I'm unsure about this since what I played mostly a Swordsage using maneuvers as ways to get flatfooted and generic utility and not for attacking, but I think that Iaijitsu Master might be worth bringing at level 8 to have two strikes as a standard action when you attack, doubling your damage. I don't think there's any strike that can get you the same increase in damage as a 9d6+9xCha.
If you plan to attack mostly with manouvers tho, you are better off leaving it at 5 levels.

As a Warblade, he could just jump at things. He is one-shotting guys with Iajutsu focus, anyway. Just jump up and smack them out of the air.
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2014, 05:58:42 PM »
Remember that being a melee you still need flight and ideally some form of move-action teleport / freedom of movement, or you'll be rendered patetically useless in most combats.
Not bad advice, but very overstated.  First, getting flight or something similar for those times you need it isn't hard at all.  Either a friendly spellcaster or even a humble potion can do all the work.  It depends a little bit on your DM's style.  Assuming he's using monsters out of the manuals for most combats, perhaps with some tweaking and templating, ranged attacks and flight are not ubiquitous.  It's more a thing that cunning PCs or enemies with class levels are likely to bring to every fight.

Second, you have Iron Heart Surge.  And, you're a Warblade, who have a very nice refresh mechanic.  You eat battlefield control and debuffs for breakfast, and your friends thank you for it. 

Offline oslecamo

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2014, 06:09:03 PM »
Iron Heart Surge can't be used if you can't move in the first place. Anything that stops you from actually moving still eats warblades for breakfast. So Freedom of Movement and Mindblank are pretty nice to have.

Offline Soft Insanity

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2014, 02:12:28 AM »
Since nobody has addressed the elephant in the room I will:

How are you going to draw your blade every round?  The simple answer is, you can't.  Sheathing a weapon is a move action that provokes AoOs.  This is why quick razors are good for iaijutsu.  The other methods would be to lug around 20 katanas, beg the gm to let quickdraw allow you to sheath quickly, or beg the gm to let you have a quicksheath feat.

The methods to get someone flatfooted usually eat up your actions as well.  You could get travel devotion and use the swift is now move action to sheath, but that will conflict with any maneuvers you might wish to use.

Offline DancingFish

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2014, 05:55:19 AM »
1. You can always make the weapon cursed, drop it + try to draw, it'll automatically appear in the hand again.
2. Travel Devotion allows only to move up to your speed as a swift action. It doesn't grant a move action itself.
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2014, 11:16:10 AM »
Iron Heart Surge can't be used if you can't move in the first place. Anything that stops you from actually moving still eats warblades for breakfast. So Freedom of Movement and Mindblank are pretty nice to have.
Sure, but the lack of 100,000+ gp of magic items does not render one "pathetically useless in most combats."  At least it hasn't in several years of gaming over here.  That could be, potentially, do to party synergy, though. 

I've never really looked into it before.  I don't know how well-defined "able to move" is in D&D.  I have treated it as saying you can't be paralyzed.  So, a Warblade wouldn't be able to Iron Heart Surge out of Hold Person, for instance.  Now that I think about it, I'm not sure how many battlefield control effects, especially without saving throws, don't allow you to "move."  Even Web and Solid Fog, 2 of the best, allow for some movement, though it's restricted.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2014, 06:42:22 PM »
Dip OA Samurai 1 at level 1 or 2 or 4.
That'll make it even more Sam-y and
take almost everything that class has.
Won't derail what else you're doing.


1. You can always make the weapon cursed, drop it + try to draw, it'll automatically appear in the hand again ...

Oh that's just evul.
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Offline Arz

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Re: "Samurai" optimization
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2014, 07:02:58 PM »
Along with the cursed theme, have it Kaorti-crafted.