Author Topic: Dustform Template Help  (Read 3588 times)

Offline Stratovarius

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Dustform Template Help
« on: June 15, 2014, 06:25:46 PM »
I'm playing a druid using the Summon Desert Ally line of spells, which applies the dustform template to every creature on the summoning list, and I'm trying to build a list of all the creatures I can summon (to determine which ones are best, basically). However, I'm not sure how to deal with applying the dustform template to a swarm creature.

Bat Swarm is the swarm in question, and the spoiler below has the template (it's page 161 of Sandstorm). At the bottom is what I think the result ends up looking like, which is strange. It basically hinges on whether the type change strips out the subtype as well. And then there's the explicit granting of a slam attack to a swarm creature...

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« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 07:39:38 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline kitep

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Re: Dustform Template Help
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2014, 08:23:44 PM »
I can't find anything that says whether or not the subtype is kept.  In this case, I think it the Swarm subtype would be kept, else you'd wind up with a single dustform bat.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Dustform Template Help
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2014, 08:36:23 PM »
Well, in that case it makes it a much more viable summon, as opposed to this weird mess here. Of course, it still has a slam attack, which I believe by RAW it can't have. Or at least isn't supposed to have as a swarm creature. And there's the oddity of bat skills keying off of blindsense when it has a much better blindsight as part of the template...

I'm also presuming that means other subtypes such as Lawful would stick around as well (Formian Worker has it, for instance). The Formian Worker also has the extraplanar subtype, so does that mean the dustform version has it as well? Can't tell if the template changes its native plane or not. All these silly little edge cases the template doesn't answer.

Updated creature. Which still loses the distraction and wounding special attacks, leaving it still crappy.
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« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 08:39:53 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Dustform Template Help
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2014, 02:41:41 AM »
You forgot the augmented animal subtype. 

Are there any rules for how breath weapons interact with multiple heads? 

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Dustform Template Help
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2014, 05:51:39 AM »
Not according to the WotC creature, which is only a Construct without subtypes.

And there are no rules, but none of the summonable creatures have multiple heads, so it doesn't matter in this case.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Dustform Template Help
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2014, 10:00:14 AM »
The spells would make a lot more sense if some of those creatures on the list weren't dustform (like the swarms)...
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Dustform Template Help
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2014, 10:10:20 AM »
The spells would make a lot more sense if some of those creatures on the list weren't dustform (like the swarms)...

Yes, yes they would. I grabbed them thinking it was just summoning a bunch of desert creatures, not the long dead construct husks of desert creatures.

On a side note, I'm actually putting together a SDA handbook (why not, I'm having to build all the templated creatures for my character, anyway), and out of the 42 creatures, I've only got 6 I'd grade as "good". And 3 of those are in SDA I. SDA II has 0, SDA III has 2, and SDA IV has 1. Now, given I'm playing a summoning specialist druid, as a character I'm probably in fine shape, but damn these spells are rubbish.

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Dustform Template Help
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2014, 03:16:06 PM »
Not according to the WotC creature, which is only a Construct without subtypes.

According to page 291 of Monster Manual, "the creature also acquires the augmented subtype (see page 306) unless the template description indicates otherwise."  Actual rules text trumps a sample creature. 

…none of the summonable creatures have multiple heads…

A bat swarm has 1,000 heads. 

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Dustform Template Help
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2014, 04:03:27 PM »
Not according to the WotC creature, which is only a Construct without subtypes.

According to page 291 of Monster Manual, "the creature also acquires the augmented subtype (see page 306) unless the template description indicates otherwise."  Actual rules text trumps a sample creature. 

…none of the summonable creatures have multiple heads…

A bat swarm has 1,000 heads.
:lol
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Dustform Template Help
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2014, 04:19:48 PM »
Given this would be the only construct template that leaves the augmented subtype around, I'm going to view it as an oversight. Not one of the other construct templates keeps the augmented subtype, even ones that don't mention whether the subtype stays or goes.

Anyway, I've gotten what I needed out of this thread, which is that the dustform template is fundamentally broken when it applies to swarms for various reasons. Typical WotC design, as always.