Author Topic: Dragon PC races (Read 16135 times)

Surreal · « **on:** November 20, 2011, 03:56:52 PM »

~~copied over from my thread on 339...~~

copied over from my original thread on BG... http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3070.0

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I was browsing through Dragons of Faerun earlier today and noticed that the Mercury/Steel/Mist wyrmlings all have low hd (3 or 4) and LA+2. They also have some nice movement modes (Mercury is insane for speed with a 200' perfect flight), good stats, and a few good special abilities (Steel gets alternate form, Mist gets gaseous form). I think this actually puts them into the realm of playable races, even starting at ecl 5-6.

Looking around briefly, the White wyrmling and Sapphire wyrmling have near the same hd/LA, but their stats and abilities are not as good. The pseudodragon gets mention for blindsense and telepathy and reasonably good stats, but unfortunately has 2hd and LA+3 (why couldn't it be the other way?).

Are there any other good dragons out there? And what can be done with them?

--------------------------
will update list later with more info...
DoF - Dragons of Faerun
Dcn - Draconomicon
MoF - Monsters of Faerun
MoI - Magic of Incarnum

Ambush Drake (online; MM3) 7HD/0LA medium - debatable about the LA

Brass (MM) 4HD/2LA tiny - breath weapon: sleep

Brown (MoF) 6HD/2LA medium - tremorsense 500' (it's a bit high for ECL, but yikes that's a powerful tremorsense)

Copper (MM) 5HD/2LA tiny - immune acid, spider climb, breath weapon: slow

Crested Felldrake (MM2) 2HD/2LA small - scent, no flight

Deep (Drow of the Underdark) 6HD/3LA tiny - burrow, detect magic, true seeing, immune to charms

Faerie (Dcn) 8HD/2LA small - decent SLAs, breath weapon: daze, can be advanced in HD/size without changing LA

Fang (Dcn) 3HD/3LA tiny - bite: ability drain, increased damage, trip, sound imitation, detect/read magic

Incarnum (MoI) 4HD/2LA tiny - Meldshaping (Soulborn list)

Mercury (DoF) 3HD/2LA tiny - high speed (200' perfect flight!), apply the Shadow template for 300'

Mist (DoF) 3HD/2LA tiny - gaseous form

Pseudodragon (MM) 2HD/3LA tiny - telepathy, blindsense, spell resistance

Rattelyr (Shining South) 2HD/2LA tiny - immune to fire, resist elec 20, no flight, burrow 60', no breath weapon, strong fear ability, tremorsense 60'

Sand (Sandstorm) 3HD/2LA tiny - Immunity to Fire, 20' burrow, Tremorsense 60 ft.

Sapphire (MM2) 5HD/2LA tiny - breath weapon: sonic & causes panic (not listed as mind or fear effect), all four movement modes, the only psionic dragon with low LA on this list

Shadow (Dcn) 4HD/3LA tiny - breath weapon: energy drain

Silver (MM) 7HD/4LA small - alternate form, breath weapon: paralyze

Spiked Felldrake (Dcn) 6HD/2LA large - very good mount (at Paladin -6), can be advanced in HD/size without changing LA

Spire (Sharn: City of Towers) 2HD/2LA tiny - evasion, blindsense 60', flight, breath weapon = fog cloud, high dex

Steel (DoF) 4HD/2LA small - alternate form, 1st level arcane casting (with access to divine plus a couple domains)

Tome (Dragon Magazine #343) 3HD/5LA - 3rd level arcane casting (knows all sorcerer divination/conjuration spells and knowledge domain)

White (MM) 3HD/2LA tiny - has all four movement modes

Other stuff
Feats from Dragons of Eberron (p.15)
- Alternate Form: gain alternate form Su ability
- Half-Dragon Form: use alternate form to become a humanoid with the half-dragon template applied
- Hidden Strength: higher stats while in alternate form

Spells from Dragons of Eberron (p.15)
- Strength of the True Form (Sor 1, transmutation) : gain NA, DR and stats of your original form while in an alternate/polymorph form

Alternate dragon features from Dragons of Eberron (p.30) - most trade away clerical spells
- Child of Eberron: learn Druidic, class skills: survival, cast druid spells
- Flame of the Forge: CL+2 for crafting, class skills: craft & UMD, a few more spells known, retain essense like an artificer
- Fortune's Fang: spells from cleric and feast, luck and trickery domains, class skills: bluff & disguise
- Guide of the Weak: spells from cleric and community and protection domain, class skills: diplomacy & intimidate
- Lightkeeper: divine aura as a cleric, take Extra Turning to gain turning as a cleric 4/day, spells from cleric and glory, law, sun and war
- Loredrake: effective sorcerer level +2, reduces hit dice to d10s
- Master of the Hoard: spells from cleric and charm, commerce and travel domains, class skills: appraise, diplomacy, sense motive
- Passion's Flame: gain rage, spells from cleric and madness and passion, class skills: perform
- Stalking Wyrm: gain favored enemies, bonus feat Track, spells from Cleric and air, animal and earth domains, class skills: hide, move silently, survival
- Wyrm of War: proficient with all simple & martial weapon, and all armor and shields, bonus feat every 4 hd, treat sorcerer level as initiator level and trade spell slots for maneuvers/stances from Tiger Claw

Races of the Dragon - see this quote from p.4

Quote

Dragons automatically qualify for any classes, prestige classes, racial substitution levels, feats, powers or spells that require the dragonblood subtype.

- depending how you read that, this could mean you automatically qualify for anything requiring the dragonblood subtype simply by virtue of being a ~~true~~ dragon, allowing you to ignore other prereqs
- Singer of Concordance (RotD, p.91) - any true dragon can enter immediately, and it progresses casting fully

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2011, 04:46:22 PM »

Here is a list of all True Dragons I know of in offical WotC books.

(click to show/hide)

Surreal · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2011, 05:25:34 PM »

Very nice. Kinda puts my list to shame

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2011, 10:01:06 PM »

Quote from: Surreal on November 20, 2011, 05:25:34 PM

Very nice. Kinda puts my list to shame

So "burrow" it. Make a True Dragon Handbook detailing useful feats, dirty tricks, and good class suggestions. You can use my list if you like. Just don't bog it down with a FAQ on Kobolds as TDs.

Surreal · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2011, 01:08:28 PM »

You assume I have the time to do such things, but sadly the demands of thesis and work and cohabitation seem to consume my time these days. If someone else wants to write up a dragon handbook, be my guest.

awaken_D_M_golem · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2011, 04:46:54 PM »

LA Buy-off can take care of 2 Racial Hit Dice + 2 LAs , by level 20.
3+ RHD is going to be short of the full buy-off.

I haven't bothered with the +3 LA numbers.
Regardless of the Racial HD , I assume it to be a 19 level build.
1 or a maximum of 2 LAs bought off , with a partial level of exp to do something.

Say like 5rhd + 3 la , is hitting the first buy-off at level 17.
5 rhd + 2 la + 9 Class levels ... about 1/2 way through party level 19 ,
you could do another , and get the exp to do something.
5 rhd + 1 la + 12 Class levels and some exp to burn.

Maybe Ardent 2 / UrPriest 2 / PT 7 / ToB 1 ... not sure the order.

Mister Lamp · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2011, 07:18:24 PM »

Quote from: Surreal on November 21, 2011, 01:08:28 PM

You assume I have the time to do such things, but sadly the demands of thesis and work and cohabitation seem to consume my time these days. If someone else wants to write up a dragon handbook, be my guest.

Dang it. I was just going to suggest one as well.

I *might* could do it, but a Dragon Handbook seems like a bad first handbook choice...

Satori · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2011, 07:31:28 PM »

Wait, golem, you can buy off Racial HD now? Since When?

betrayor · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2011, 08:16:02 PM »

I had a list in the BG forum with has listed all the true dragons(Including ones from the Dragon and the Dungeon magazines)......
It has some more that are missing from Soro's list.....
Here it is.....

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9566.0

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2011, 08:28:06 PM »

Quote from: Mister Lamp on November 21, 2011, 07:18:24 PM

Quote from: Surreal on November 21, 2011, 01:08:28 PM
You assume I have the time to do such things, but sadly the demands of thesis and work and cohabitation seem to consume my time these days. If someone else wants to write up a dragon handbook, be my guest.

Dang it. I was just going to suggest one as well.

I *might* could do it, but a Dragon Handbook seems like a bad first handbook choice...

No such thing. A Dragon Handbook is a perfect place to start. A wellspring of information on the subject is at hand.

Classes: TD have like one class, rest are Sorcerer based. Go read the Sorcerer handbook.
Feats: Dragonfire Adapt Handbook contains notes virtually all of the Metabreath feats. You really just need to look them over.
Items: Check the Druid and Monk Handbooks on augmenting natural weapons.
You'll need a list of dragons and it looks like SorO, Surreal and Betrayor just helped you out there. You'll want to touch on the TD's trait of Age=HD and SorO has a dozen writes up on abusing that for epic spells and feats by level 9 that I'm sure he would supple if asked.

What is lacking is someone with with the to collaborate the information and throw some flavor into it so it's not just a factorial listing of "go here and read this". And the first step to a great handbook or resource thread isn't your creative writing or punctuation. The willingness to go back and edit it once in awhile to include stuff you missed is what makes it work out so well. Missed the awesome effects of Lingering Breath? Someone will mentioned it in hope you'll edit it in. People will support you to support your thread.

Mister Lamp · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2011, 09:04:44 PM »

Quote from: SorO_Lost on November 21, 2011, 08:28:06 PM

Quote from: Mister Lamp on November 21, 2011, 07:18:24 PM
Quote from: Surreal on November 21, 2011, 01:08:28 PM
You assume I have the time to do such things, but sadly the demands of thesis and work and cohabitation seem to consume my time these days. If someone else wants to write up a dragon handbook, be my guest.

Dang it. I was just going to suggest one as well.

I *might* could do it, but a Dragon Handbook seems like a bad first handbook choice...
No such thing. A Dragon Handbook is a perfect place to start. A wellspring of information on the subject is at hand.

Classes: TD have like one class, rest are Sorcerer based. Go read the Sorcerer handbook.
Feats: Dragonfire Adapt Handbook contains notes virtually all of the Metabreath feats. You really just need to look them over.
Items: Check the Druid and Monk Handbooks on augmenting natural weapons.
You'll need a list of dragons and it looks like SorO, Surreal and Betrayor just helped you out there. You'll want to touch on the TD's trait of Age=HD and SorO has a dozen writes up on abusing that for epic spells and feats by level 9 that I'm sure he would supple if asked.

What is lacking is someone with with the to collaborate the information and throw some flavor into it so it's not just a factorial listing of "go here and read this". And the first step to a great handbook or resource thread isn't your creative writing or punctuation. The willingness to go back and edit it once in awhile to include stuff you missed is what makes it work out so well. Missed the awesome effects of Lingering Breath? Someone will mentioned it in hope you'll edit it in. People will support you to support your thread.

Alright fine, I'll give it a shot. I've got the free time for it.

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #11 on:** November 22, 2011, 12:19:35 AM »

I'll see if I can find a decent example on aging and PM it over later.

Preemptive thanks too.

Surreal · « **Reply #12 on:** November 22, 2011, 12:36:13 PM »

There's also the funny clause somewhere (Draconomicon) where it states Dracon PCs much take racial HD after a certain amount of levels.

Tshern · « **Reply #13 on:** November 22, 2011, 12:56:47 PM »

I agree with SorO_Lost. If you want to start a handbook, go for it. We are optimising Dungeons and Dragons here, so a handbook on dragons is hardly a bad idea. A useful resource for DMs as well.

Two tips: Scintillating scales and Bestow curse (for aging shenanigans).

Mister Lamp · « **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2011, 05:11:36 PM »

Well, I've started. I promise nothing, but here's a Link

awaken_D_M_golem · « **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2011, 06:00:45 PM »

Quote from: Satori on November 21, 2011, 07:31:28 PM

Wait, golem, you can buy off Racial HD now? Since When?

Oh, no. That's not what I meant.

Let's say you're a Thrikreen with 2rhd+2la.
It would have to wait for Class Level 6 before it can buy-off.
That's 2rhd + 6 class levels + 2la and then buy-off the first la.

I was shorthanding the math.
2rhd with 2la and 18 class levels and la buy-off = level 20
2rhd + 18 class levels + just about absolutely normal EXP for that level.

awaken_D_M_golem · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2011, 06:03:03 PM »

Quote from: Surreal on November 22, 2011, 12:36:13 PM

There's also the funny clause somewhere (Draconomicon) where it states Dracon PCs much take racial HD after a certain amount of levels.

... I wanna see that !!
(i've no access)

This is quite the nerf for Dragonwrought Kobolds, eh ?

Bastian · « **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2011, 06:50:18 PM »

Quote from: Surreal on November 22, 2011, 12:36:13 PM

There's also the funny clause somewhere (Draconomicon) where it states Dracon PCs much take racial HD after a certain amount of levels.

Page number?

PlzBreakMyCampaign · « **Reply #18 on:** November 22, 2011, 10:22:39 PM »

Nice list soro. This thread will be conglomerated by me.

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2011, 12:18:01 AM »

Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign on November 22, 2011, 10:22:39 PM

Nice list soro. This thread will be conglomerated by me.

ty.

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Author Topic: Dragon PC races (Read 16135 times)

Satori