-1 metamagic

[SolEiji]

I want to say there is something out there that can lower a spells level by one (so Fireball would be 2nd level for example) but I cannot recall if it actually exists.  I don't mean metamagic reducers, I know about things like Arcane Thesis, I mean something that actually drops the level by 1.  Have I gone mad?  Well, yes, but am I imagining this?

[Garryl]

There's Languid Spell, a 3rd-party PF metamagic that drops a spell's slot level by 2, but removes the spell level from the save DC calculation. Despoiled Spell, same 3rd party, -1 slot level, take 2 Con damage that can't be healed.

[skydragonknight]

Sanctum Spell was the most commonly used one for such abuses. It doesn't change the slot, but there were a lot of tricks you could do both with higher and lower effective spells. Not that I remember any of them.

[SolEiji]

Sanctum Spell, that's the one!

I'm trying to get a 7th level spell on a normal metamagic rod is why.  That works, right?  It would count as 6th, cast from 7th?

[skydragonknight]

Yep. Anything with a maximum spell level it can affect (like spell-storing items) are good things to abuse with it.

[ketaro]

What abuse? The feat clearly states that the spell uses a slot of the same level as it normally would, this still being cast as a 7th level spell even if only creating an effect relative to a 6th (in that for anything in the spell that scales off spell level like DCs) but still stating being cast as a spell of the normal level. "Effective spell level" is not "Spell level" in any reading. Especially when what spell level slot is still used to cast the spell is clarified later in the same paragraph.

[skydragonknight]

It is treated as a lower level spell for the purposes of things that are limited by spell level. It specifically mentions lesser globe of invulnerability as an example. So other things that are limited to certain spell levels should also be affected.

[ketaro]

It mentions spells and spell effects and effects in genral that are limited in it's examples and text. Item creation is neither a spell nor the effect of a spell nor an effect of anything in general; it's a cause. That's not RAI or RAW, that's abus---Oh I get it now. It IS abuse. Dat circular logic yo  Cheatmode much?


Edit: Last but not least, "dependent on spell level" is completely different from "limited by spell level". But that's apparently inconsequential considering my revelation

[linklord231]

To be fair, spell save DCs aren't exactly "effects" either, but they're explicitly called out in the feat's description.  By precedent, we're to use something's "effective" level for all relevant purposes unless we're told not to. 

[zook1shoe]

Arcane Thesis and a +0 Metamagic feat?

[ketaro]

To be fair, spell save DCs aren't exactly "effects" either, but they're explicitly called out in the feat's description.  By precedent, we're to use something's "effective" level for all relevant purposes unless we're told not to.

That's not to be fair, that's nitpicking. A single example does not prove a theory.

[SorO_Lost]

I like the Bloodline one. The keyword is calculate.

[linklord231]

To be fair, spell save DCs aren't exactly "effects" either, but they're explicitly called out in the feat's description.  By precedent, we're to use something's "effective" level for all relevant purposes unless we're told not to.

That's not to be fair, that's nitpicking. A single example does not prove a theory.

But a single counterexample does disprove a theory.  Especially when that counterexample is 50% of our data points.  And you were picking nits to begin with when you claimed "Item Creation doesn't count as an 'effect'."