The caster of my dreams: A ambitious project.

[Unbutu]

I've spent many years lurking in forums like this one. It gave me a very weird sense of what should be done. I've grown very attached to the idea of a mage who could do a lot of things (see below). Today, I'm trying to realise as much of it as possible.

I've read a ton of guides, handbooks and builds, but now, I would like your healp to put it togheter. Here we go !

I'd like to have as much of possible of the following elements(see the list below). It's a 20 levels build that I would like to try to play someday, when I'll see a DM write '' Pathdinder /3.5 material accepted.'' I don't have a build so to speak, just a ton of things I'd like to do, and I wonder how to put a lot of them togheter into a build.

Ressources:

(click to show/hide)

The game would be played in Pathfinder. Material used would be Pathfinder official, 3.5 official. I guess we could/will have to sneak in something from 3.0/third party at some point to make it work. We'll keep that as a last resort.

Ambition:
 Be a ''god'' (conjurer mostly) type spellcaster. (A control spellcaster.) Ways to do this are: Have many Control spells, Summon Monsters (skeletons, ect), Buff Teamates/Monsters.

Ways to accomplish this:

Spells Selection
What I know:
Cast battlfield control spells. Most of them are on the Wizard/Sorcerer List
What I'd like:
Add spells to my list from other classes.

(click to show/hide)

This is examples of spells I love :
Acid Fog
Acid Pit
Black tentacles
Blood mist
Crakling skull
Cloodkill
Chain of perdition
Dust of twilight
darness
deeper darkness
Dark-light
Earthquake
entangle
stinking cloud
fog cloud
firefall
glitterdust
gust of wind

Spells Quantity
What I know:
With some dual progression PrC, (mystic theurge, ur-priest, ultimate magus, cerebromancer), I can end up doing a lot of things a little worse than a single class wizard. I sounds good for what I want to do.

What I'd like: Is there another class that increase both a arcane prepared and arcane spontaneous spellcasting class ?

Applying Metamagic
What I know:
It seems extremely good to go Ultimate Magus to use my aboundant spell slots to create better, larger, longer duration control spells. Using metamagic by expanding spell slots makes me all wet inside.

What I'd like:
Is it doable to go Wizard X/sorcerer X/Ultimate Magus 10/Ur Priest 1 ,and also have acces to cleric spells ? Is there a way to add in divine metamagic ?

Counterspelling
By replacing Sorcerer by Arcanist I could, even with 1 level, counterspell as a immediate action. It does sound extremely good, is it ? Then, with the extra spell slots gained from dual progression PrC, I could fuel more counterspelling. (Consume low level arcane spells to fill arcane reservoir)

Arcanist also have the advantage that it's INT-based spontaneous, so less MAD.

Race
No clue yet. I suppose the favored class bonus won't matter, since I won't spend many levels in one class. Guess I should go with Elves for bonus to Spells DC and INT ?

Buffing
Is it necessary/Usefull to think about adding 5 war-weaver levels ? The ability to buff the team so fast seems extremely good !

[Unbutu]

So here's my first attempt at a build:

1)Arcanist 1
2)Wizard 1 / Arcanist 1
3)Wizard 2 / Arcanist 1  -)Praticed Spellcaster
4)Wizard 3 / Arcanist 1
5)Wizard 3 / Arcanist 1 / Ur-Priest 1
6)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 1 / Ur-Priest 1
7)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 2 / Ur-Priest 1
8)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 3 / Ur-Priest 1
9)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 4 / Ur-Priest 1
10)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 5 / Ur-Priest 1
11)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 6 / Ur-Priest 1
12)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 7 / Ur-Priest 1
13)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 8 / Ur-Priest 1
14)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 9 / Ur-Priest 1
15)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / Ur-Priest 1
16) Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / War-Weaver 1 / Ur-Priest 1
17) Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / War-Weaver 2 / Ur-Priest 1
18)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / War-Weaver 3 / Ur-Priest 1
19)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / War-Weaver 4 / Ur-Priest 1
20)Wizard 4 / Arcanist 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / War-Weaver 5  / Ur-Priest 1

Is that even possible ? I think I would be pretty happy is it does.

Unknowns:
-How to enter Ultimage Magus at level 6 ? This guy here does it, but I don't know how he meets the lvl 8 spellcraft requirement at lvl 6: Ultimate Magus HB : http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4039.0

- What spells level this build would actually be able to cast.



Thanks everyone for reading this ! I appreciate your time and comments !

[Unbutu]

reserved

[Gazzien]

I don't believe there are any Prepared Arcane / Spontaneous Arcane classes other than the Ultimate Magus, no. Though if you're doing Ultimate Magus for metamagic purposes, you could probably benefit just as much (or more) by using Dweomerkeeper or Incantatrix - both have a capstone that reduces the cost for each metamagic feat by one spell level.

Ur-Priest 1 would give you access to cleric spells... but not many of them. It wouldn't add those spells to your Wizard list (for something like that, you would need Rainbow Servant - and depending on how your DM rules, it can either be a great class or a horrible one), so you'd only have first level cleric spells. Ur-Priest also doesn't get Turn (well, Rebuke) Undead until level two, so you'd have to take two levels if you wanted Divine Metamagic from it.

Race-wise, in Pathfinder, I'm rather more partial to Humans - they still get the +2 INT for extra spells and DC's, as well as getting a bonus feat.

You might do better with versatility / power just by going Wizard 5 / Ur-Priest 1 (or 2) / Mystic Theurge 10; cast as a fifteenth-level Wizard and a full Ur-Priest, so you'd have Wizard eighths and Cleric nines. Not sure though, I'm certainly not the best at optimizing these things, I really don't play many casters xD

[caelic]

Well, I'll dust off my old Ultimate Magus build for your consideration.

Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination variant,)/Knight of the Weave 1/Ultimate Magus 10/PrC of choice 4

Spontaneous divination allows your Wiz 5 to cast level 3 arcane spells spontaneously, qualifying you for Knight of the Weave.  Knight of the Weave gives you a dandy secondary pool of spells up to level 6, Detect Magic and Read Magic at will, and because of the way the caster level is calculated (KotW level plus other arcane caster level,) is ALWAYS your highest caster level--meaning that Ultimate Magus progresses your wizard casting every level.

Alternatively:

Wiz 5/KotW 1/Ultimate Magus 9/War Weaver 5

or, for a more summoning focused variant:

Wiz 5/KotW 1/Ultimate Magus 9/Malconvoker 5


Unfortunately, either of these will cost you a level of wizard casting and drop your Knight of the Weave spells to 5th level maximum, so I'd consider them suboptimal.

[Unbutu]

Thanks for your comments Gazzien. It makes me feel it's getting started !

Dweomerkeeper or Incantatrix

Interesting idea. The incantatrix even gets it at lvl 8 (it's not her capstone). I'm not sure why you prefer it, tough ?

Ultimate magus 10: Cast a lvl 5 (or lower) spell with a +3 metamagic. It cost 1 5th and 1 3rd lvl spell slots.

Incantatrix 8: Cast 7th (or lower spell with a +3 metamagic.)  The cost for that same 5th lvl spell would be a woping lvl 7 slot.

Could you explain to me why you prefer this second option ? It seems like spending lower level spells slots is nothing a those levels, compared to spending your precious high lvl ones ?

Ur-Priest 1 :
I tought I would get  (all other spellcasters levels)/2 (12 maybe?) + Ur-Priest lvl 1 = 13th lvl cleric spells ?

Race-wise, in Pathfinder, I'm rather more partial to Humans - they still get the +2 INT for extra spells and DC's, as well as getting a bonus feat.

Wizard / Ur-Priest /Mysthic Theurge
It seems more practical, that's for sure. That's kind of my plan C. If I can fit nothing else in the build, I'll take that...
[/quote]

[KellKheraptis]

So, all spells evar at redonkulous caster level potentially, with no real weakness and the ability to whip off the kid gloves and take a pantheon of gods to school?

Wizard 3/War Weaver 5/Shadowcraft mage 4/Incantatrix 7/Mindbender 1

Lose one caster level to gain mass free metamagic, das uberbuff for companions, spidey sense through Mindsight, and if you really wanna be a bad ass, switch around some levels to get at least 5 levels of Red Wizard for Circle Magic.  Oh, and if you can get 1 level of Contemplative, you'll score the Cleric list.

Next question : How far into the stratosphere do you want to take it?

[linklord231]

Just chiming in to answer your question about how he got 8 ranks in Spellcraft at level 5:  Because that's how skill points work in 3.5.  At first level, you get x4 skill points, and have a max ranks cap equal to your level +3.  They changed this around in Pathfinder, which is probably why you're confused. 

[phaedrusxy]

Don't be distracted by all the other things the incantatrix (or anything else...) gets. The only ones you really care about are at 2nd and 3rd (mostly 3rd) levels of Incantatrix. These let you apply metamagic feats to a lot (IIRC Int mod spells per day) your spells (and your allies' spells) for free by making ridiculously high spellcraft checks. So all you really need to do is take Incantatrix 3 and max out your Spellcraft check to get all the metamagic you want for free (no spell slot increase).

For versatility, what you want is the Uncanny Foresight feat and the Planar Touchstone feat applied to the Catalogues of Enlightenment. The first lets you cast several spells per day spontaneously, which can be chosen from any spell in your spellbook. The latter lets you scribe spells from any cleric domain into your spellbook (also in a roundabout way).

Then add the Spontaneous Divination feat to cast any Divination spell ever (perhaps on any spell list) spontaneously.

So the core of any "ultimate caster" build should be wizard 5/incantatrix 3, with those feats. The rest is gravy. You'll be the UBER-mage, and your spellcaster buddies will love you because you can metamagic their spells for them as well. You can build a party based around this which can curbstomb encounters multiple levels above their average party level.

[caelic]

Now, it's been a while, but here's the build as I recall it.

1. Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll, Summon Familiar, Extend Spell
2. Wizard 2
3. Wizard 3: Craft Wondrous Item
4. Wizard 4
5. Wizard 5: Spontaneous Divination (CC 52)
6. Knight of the Weave 1: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Empower Spell
7. Ultimate Magus 1: Arcane Spell Power 1
8. Ultimate Magus 2: Expanded Spell Knowledge (level 1)
9. Ultimate Magus 3: Augmented Casting, Minor Shapeshift
10. Ultimate Magus 4: Arcane Spell Power 2, Expanded Spell Knowledge (level 2)
11. Ultimate Magus 5: Quicken Spell
12. Ultimate Magus 6: Expanded Spell Knowledge (level 3), Residual Magic
13. Ultimate Magus 7: Arcane Spell Power 3
14. Ultimate Magus 8: Expanded Spell Knowledge (level 4)
15. Ultimate Magus 9: Persistent Spell, Twin Spell
16. Ultimate Magus 10: Arcane spell power +4, Expanded Spell Knowledge (level 5)


Wizard caster level at level 16: 19
KotW caster level at level 16: 20

1. With Augment Casting, he can add free metamagic to a spell up to 8 times/day by burning a spell slot from his other spell class equal to the level adjustment of the metamagic feat.  He can apply the free metamagic to a spell of up to 5th level. 

2. He normally burns his KotW slots to power his mage spells, using sixth level spell slots to make buffs persistent, then using the rest of his uses to Quicken and Twin spells for free.

3. Thanks to Residual Metamagic, each time he Quickens or Twins a spell for free, he can Quicken or Twin the same spell for free next round--meaning he can add free metamagic to up to 16 spells per day.

4. Knight of the Weave gives him a nice mix of usually-divine spells to round out his wizard spells, when they're not being used to fuel free metamagic.  I usually choose:

Level 1: Bless Weapon, Divine Favor, Lesser Restoration, Cure Light Wounds
Level 2: Shield Other, Delay Poison, Resist Energy, Darkvision
Level 3: Cure Moderate Wounds, Forceward, Remove Curse
Level 4: Death Ward, Neutralize Poison, Mark of Justice
Level 5: True Seeing, Disrupting Weapon
Level 6: Banishment, Greater Dispel Magic


Overall, the build gains a lot at the cost of a single level of wizard casting.  He's fragile, but Minor Shapeshift allows him to regain hit points each round as a swift action, which provides a nice buffer.  He can cast divinations spontaneously, and thus, never needs to memorize them; read magic and detect magic at will are just gravy.  Overall, it's a powerful, versatile build that doesn't involve jumping through a lot of hoops, and leaves room for customization at the end.  (If you REALLY want to get stupid with the metamagic, make room for Iron Will and finish it off with four levels of Incantatrix.)

[Soft Insanity]

Pathfinder /3.5 material accepted.

The Killer Gnome Wins and it's really no contest.  As long as you can heighten your cantrip silent images (from race subs), you can potentially have unlimited shadow miracles.  All the other builds seems to run out of powers at some point.  I was going to suggest artificer (the true king of metamagic), but really all you need is the gnome.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Erudite StP + Magic Mantle 7 / Nar Demonbinder 1 / Cerebremancer 6
... is a solid spell level behind the various builds above, also
assumes at least as much magic mart spells available, however
that's only before the mandatory mention of a Recharge set-up.

[KellKheraptis]

Pathfinder /3.5 material accepted.

The Killer Gnome Wins and it's really no contest.  As long as you can heighten your cantrip silent images (from race subs), you can potentially have unlimited shadow miracles.  All the other builds seems to run out of powers at some point.  I was going to suggest artificer (the true king of metamagic), but really all you need is the gnome.

Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5/Incantatrix 4/SCM 5/XXX 1 ?  Oh, and take Miser with Magic and Echoing Spell with Residual Magic   Never stop casting those CL 100+ shadow miracles.

[Azrael]

Not sure how you are getting CL 100 with just red wizard, 50 I can see, but 100 is pretty high given the cap is 40 and this build doesn't seem to have other ways of increasing CL other than with items.

[KellKheraptis]

Not sure how you are getting CL 100 with just red wizard, 50 I can see, but 100 is pretty high given the cap is 40 and this build doesn't seem to have other ways of increasing CL other than with items.

Here you go : http://community.wizards.com/comment/33869816#comment-33869816

For the record, I can take it a LOT higher

[Azrael]

Not sure how you are getting CL 100 with just red wizard, 50 I can see, but 100 is pretty high given the cap is 40 and this build doesn't seem to have other ways of increasing CL other than with items.

Here you go : http://community.wizards.com/comment/33869816#comment-33869816

For the record, I can take it a LOT higher

Oh I didn't realize you were using GCF.