Author Topic: Help Optimizing a Tripper  (Read 2425 times)

Offline bootzin

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Help Optimizing a Tripper
« on: August 31, 2014, 12:49:18 AM »
Hi guys,
I'm going to begin a new Gestalt campaign soon, and I would like some advice from you, specially regarding items.
It is gestalt with a few homebrew, which means no class restrictions for gestalting and we are allowed to a maximum of 3 templates. The Point buy is 35 (30+1d6), minimum buy of 7, max 18, and we start at Lvl 6 with 2 LAs bought off. We need to take the HD though. Every template except for Lolth-touched and a few broken others is available, including LA:-, but they have to be justified by your character background. So let me start by telling a little about my campaign.

We live in the classic dnd material plane. We are evil characters who are supposed to seek some kind of 'hard to obtain buff/super power' (Classic immortality, maybe?). The begining and development of the campaign are still unknown, as the DM will only tell it to us after we started playing, but we are supposed to send our backgrounds to him before it starts. That said, we know some of the late game: A 100 levels tower of darkness, madness and destruction, which we will have to face prior to acquiring what we were seeking.

My character is a Maug construct who has been captured by Mind Flayers so that they would do some torturing and brutal experiments with me. I was forcibly transformed into an Incarnate, implanted a right arm and a left leg from a clay golem (Half Golem Template - Will save successful), implanted with a graft of a fiendish long arm (5k gp I had to spend from initial gold), and finally, I had part of my brains removed by them and replaced with that sticky slime (Voidmind template). I managed to free myself from the slave condition, and now I basically hate everyone around me.

The rest of the team is still having some hard time on deciding their characters, it is a 4 people party, one PC is the DM, but what I know so far is that we are gonna have a gish with divine minion template and about 20 attacks/round when transformed, and a god damn hard to catch blinking friend, who is gonna stack all the blinking/teleporting ways he can. we may also have another beatstick, but he doesn't know his build just yet.

Extreme damage dealers are disencouraged (Such as Gunslingers), and cheese like "the" kobold or pun-pun is banned for obvious reasons. Besides that, characters must be beatable.

Talking about the books, pretty much every book in 3.5 is allowed, as well as some 3.0 and most PF.

My build is as follows:
(click to show/hide)

Final Considerations
So pretty much this is it, I want some advices on my character, considering that I intend to get War Hulk10 in my build. My psychic powers are gonna be expansion and compression, so that I can't get bigger, or stop being affected by war hulk's no time to think. I still intend to get Steadfast Determination, and a lvl of Crusader late game to get Thicket of Blades and Immortal Fortitude stances. I also thought about getting Shoving Arm graft, but that would be another 2kgp, and I don't know if I can afford it
Besides that I believe this is all the ideas I could get. It's a totally optimized campaign, so I believe this character is not that unbalanced
Give me your opinion and tell what could I do to make it better (or worse, if you think it is too optimized :p) and specially, give me advices on items and magical items, it has been the hardest for me to pick..

Here is some reference for everything I've said:
(click to show/hide)
Thanks guys   :D
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 12:51:18 AM by bootzin »

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Help Optimizing a Tripper
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 10:29:44 AM »
Ok, Half-Golem, aside from being very poorly written....doesn't seem to be meant for PC use.  It has +3 CR, but no listed LA, which means to me you can't play one.  If it did have an LA, it would be more than the CR boost, which makes it unpalatable for you to pick anyway.  Your DM is actually ok with this?  The Cha 1 also seems like it's going to come back to bite you in the ass.  :p

You already have the Wolf Lion Spirit Barb, Living Chain (where's your exotic weapon prof., though?), reach extending feats, and most other stuff I would have suggested covered.  Just a few other options:

Templates: Mineral Warrior (online) is very strong for +1 LA.  Feral (Savage Species, a book best banned in general) is extremely powerful and I think technically +1 LA.

Class dips: Factotum (Dungeonscape) 3 adds Int to all Str and Dex checks and skill checks, including tripping and initiative.  With a big point buy, it can be worth it, if you don't nuke your int like you have.  Likewise, a dip in Marshal (online) and a good charisma means Motivate Strength to add cha to trip checks.

In MIC, cheap items like Brute Gauntlets can give you a small boost 3/day.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Help Optimizing a Tripper
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2014, 12:33:33 PM »
One of the biggest vulnerabilities to a tripper build we've come across in a PvP Gladiator gestalt arena...

you cannot trip a normal flyer w good or higher maneuverability w/o any tricks. Make sure you have other options for a flyer
add me on Steam- zook1shoe
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Offline bootzin

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Re: Help Optimizing a Tripper
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2014, 12:45:25 PM »
Ok, I talked with my DM today, and he said it IS allowed for me to take the Half Golem template, maily because of 3 reasons: Firstly, it really is part of my character's background, and he liked my overall story, so he said I could have it for no LA. Secondly, he said he will study it more carefully and nerf it a little bit further, I can't get stone nor iron golems, I won't get magic immunity (Though I will be affected by the spells that affect golems differently) and he is still considering about the stat nerf. Thirdly, he kinda said to me that we are gonna play an evil campaign now, so that we make some strong evil characters for us to defeat in his next good campaign.. This is the second campaign we are playing together already, so we think we will make it untill the end, and srsly, this was unexpected to me, kinda scared of building a way too powerful character now :P
About the charisma 1, I'm immune to ability dmg, drain and negative energy effects, so I'm not worried at all. Though it will give me some trouble

Damn, I really totally forgot the profficiency :/
I was thinking of getting the exocist fighter variant to get 4 free EWPs, but I would have to reduce my feat list, and that wouldn't be possible. Now I don't know wether to take EWP(Rope Dart) or EWP(Spiked Chain). Though Spiked chains would grant me access to the Living Chain, Rope Dart and Mountain Hammer have 5ft increased range. Any suggestions?

Funny enough (srsly, go figure) Mineral Warrior is banned, and feral would be great if I didn't have Pounce, Improved Grab (With the Sentient Tentalcle) and Haste.. I had really considered these, for the case Half Golem was not allowed, or if it becomes too nerfed.

About the class dips, I thought about having a better charisma (Specially for the crusader) and getting Marshal, but then my friend said that he would get it, and as I also get the bonus, I thought I wouldn't need it anymore..
Factotum seems nice, I always wanted to play one, I'll consider it depending on how is Half Golem template nerfed, I really loved this template, and having the ugliest character in the world, with such implants and creepy look seems nice for an evil guy

Brute Gauntlets seems to be nice, I still have plenty of money though.. Think of any enchantments I can put in my weapons? Or a good armor to wear? (I have to craft my own armor, or find someone to do it for me, since I'm all disfigured and I can't wear normal armor)

About the flying part, I'll have to stick with an costy item to fly, probably gonna go above them and bull rush them to the ground (Of course it depends on height, but why not try? We just have to beg for a willing mage's spell to stop us before hitting the ground as hard as our target :P)

And some doubts I still have:
Can a character who can't run, charge?
Can the Voidmind's Sentient Tentacle wield a weapon?
Does the "Wound" special attack apply to weapon attacks?
Does the Shoving Arm Graft makes me unable to wield 2 handed wapons?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 12:51:56 PM by bootzin »

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Help Optimizing a Tripper
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 01:27:13 PM »
Keep in mind one issue with such a low Charisma is the moment you get any stat damage to it, you're comatose as per the rules on attributes.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Help Optimizing a Tripper
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2014, 01:56:00 PM »
Well, that's why I brought it up.  He says he's immune to all stat damage and drain, though.  Why the DM is ok w/ exploiting that and w/ Half-Golem template but not Mineral Warrior I don't know.

However...if this is an evil character, be wary still.  Positoxins and Ravages from Book of Exalted Deeds are basically poisons and diseases that ONLY work on evil foes and state (in very badly worded text that has launched a thousand internet arguments about which absolute beats the other absolute) that they basically ignore normal immunities to such effects the evil target might have.
I would suspect if you're DM is ok w/ you min-maxing your Charisma down to 1, he has some plan to make you pay for it at some point, likely those items.

......................

For flying, there's a Wings graft in Fiend Folio.  It's still pricy at 10,000 gp, but it's all day non-magical flight and still cheaper than most options, plus it gives a nice spammable self-buff if you can make the skill check.

A lot of effects will bar charging and running (like the fatigue condition tree), but if whatever the effect is says you simply can't run, charging should still be ok.  If noting else, any time you're limited to only a standard action (like, if you're a zombie), you can still charge, but only move up to your speed instead of 2x speed.  While being so limited would preclude running entirely since that's a full round action always.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 02:02:10 PM by StreamOfTheSky »

Offline bootzin

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Re: Help Optimizing a Tripper
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2014, 02:49:05 PM »
Ok, I messed up mineral warrior with master monster, nvm that :P
And I just received the news that half golem template will be nerfed regarding stat, penalties will also be reduced.
And check the void mind template, I'm srsly immune to ability dmg, drain, negative energy effects and poisons, it's LA+3, but worth it IMO..
And positoxins not only affects only undeads, but also it can't reduce their ability to less than 1..
I really think that besides the -5 modifier, I won't have problems regarding ability scores
Edit: ravages listed on Book of Exalted Deeds don't affect charisma, and only one affects int, but with a max of 1d4, and has a fortitude save, so I guess don't really have to worry. As to afflictions there is one that deals 1d6 dmg, and the dc save is 20, the sole one I should worry about (what is the save based?)

As for flying, that graft really seems like a nice option, I'll have to wait a little to get it though, not enough money right now :P

So I guess I can charge, since the only thing it says is that I can't run..
What about the other questions? Any ideas?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 03:12:39 PM by bootzin »