[3.P] Making a manipulator Wizard//Sorcerer Cha dependent OR Int dependent

[ImperatorK]

I'd like to make the Wizard as Cha dependent as possible. What ways are there to accomplish that?
I believe there's a feat that changes caster ability? I don't remember its name.

[SorO_Lost]

Depends, what sources?

LOST TRADITION [GENERAL]
You are descended from a group of spellcasters who had very different ways of mastering magic, and you follow in their tradition.
Benefits: Choose one spellcasting class. You may change which ability score governs spellcasting with that class. That ability cannot be changed again.
For example, Meishel Ellazen is a houri cleric. She takes the Lost Tradition feat and chooses to base her clerical spellcasting on Charisma instead of Wisdom. She now uses her Charisma score to determine her bonus spells, spell save DCs, maximum spell level she may cast, and any other calculation regarding her cleric spells.
Special: You can take this feat only at 1st level.

Honestly, Lost Tradition is OP since you can base it off Strength. The easiest to rocket to sky high levels so it hits the moon (and throws it). But a Feat to swap Mental Stats is pretty fair and Dragon Magazine (2nd party) sets pretext with Serenity. And in Pathfinder, the Sorcerer can choose Bloodlines for swap his Ability Score; Sage for Intelligence and Empyreal for Wisdom. So nothing 1st Party, but Houserules for such wouldn't be right out.

Talk things over with your DM armed with this information and see what s/he'll allow.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

Depends, what sources?

LOST TRADITION [GENERAL]
You are descended from a group of spellcasters who had very different ways of mastering magic, and you follow in their tradition.
Benefits: Choose one spellcasting class. You may change which ability score governs spellcasting with that class. That ability cannot be changed again.
For example, Meishel Ellazen is a houri cleric. She takes the Lost Tradition feat and chooses to base her clerical spellcasting on Charisma instead of Wisdom. She now uses her Charisma score to determine her bonus spells, spell save DCs, maximum spell level she may cast, and any other calculation regarding her cleric spells.
Special: You can take this feat only at 1st level.

Honestly, Lost Tradition is OP since you can base it off Strength. The easiest to rocket to sky high levels so it hits the moon (and throws it). But a Feat to swap Mental Stats is pretty fair and Dragon Magazine (2nd party) sets pretext with Serenity. And in Pathfinder, the Sorcerer can choose Bloodlines for swap his Ability Score; Sage for Intelligence and Empyreal for Wisdom. So nothing 1st Party, but Houserules for such wouldn't be right out.

Talk things over with your DM armed with this information and see what s/he'll allow.

I really want to make a strength wizard now.

[SolEiji]

If you need, I covered this and made it physical or mental only.  If you want to have a "written up" homebrew of what SorO described.

[SorO_Lost]

I really want to make a strength wizard now.

You mean muscle wizard?

[CaptRory]

Would Dex Wizard be the best? It bumps your Initiative and Armor Class up. The other contender would be Constitution for raw HP and Fort Saves I think.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

Would Dex Wizard be the best? It bumps your Initiative and Armor Class up. The other contender would be Constitution for raw HP and Fort Saves I think.

It certainly is not terrible

Battle Sorcerer / Swiftblade / Abjurant Champion would make for a fun Dex Gish

[ketaro]

Whoa, that can make rage mages even funner :O

[SorO_Lost]

Dexterity would be great, but Strength wins out.

Wild Proto-Horc for instance has +0 LA and gains +10 to Strength allowing you to start with a 28.
100gp later and you Battlewine another +4 Alchemical and 12k later you have Greater Rage for +6 more.
Spell wise, Bite of the Werebear gives you +16 Enhancement and Giant Size gives you +32 Unnamed and we're barely brushing the subject.

Just those few contributions we're talking 86 (+38) Strength so far. Even most Epic Monsters will have problems making their Saves against your Spells. Titan Elder and Force Dragon examples only clock in at +50 to Fort/Will and you still have Level/Inherent/Moral/Sacred/Profane/Size/Circumstance/Deformity & at least seven different Unnamed Bonuses to add outside of Class Features.

(click to show/hide)

...And then there is Festering Anger.

[CaptRory]

I knew Strength was easier to raise. But let's assume the GM wouldn't allow such shenanigans. Outside of ramping up strength to boost spellcasting ability it doesn't really do anything for wizards.

[Soft Insanity]

Dexterity would be great, but Strength wins out.
...And then there is Festering Anger.

Don't get  me started...I just finished a game that was completely ruined by Festering Anger Cancer Mage.  On a cohort no less.  The GM and I were pretty upset and the GM has banned leadership in the continuation game.   The offending player blamed the ramp up on me for daring to polymorph into a wartroll and bonk her on the head for being the most colossally stupid character ever.  On reflection, I should have stuck to my strict no pvp policy, but it's hard to do when the offending players actions were going to blow up your house indirectly.  Not to mention the whole being thrown out of a city where your business is located.

On topic: Stick with Charisma.  As I'm sure you know already, it's much easier to raise than intelligence.  If you buy ranks in UMD and a minor schema of Item alteration, you can do nasty things with stat boosting items.  Artificer of course does this best as they can reach persist this cheese.

[ImperatorK]

Sources available are all 3.X and PF materials short of homebrew or obscure 3rd party.

So I can change Wizard's Int to Cha with Lost Tradition. What about all of his other abilities?

[Craiconn]

Nearly all the wizards I've ever played have had decent-to-high CHA.  Reason being, a lot of the spells I like involve CHA Checks (for Charm Person/Monster [or Dream Casting "Charm" if you can't cast Enchantments], Planar Binding series, Command Undead, etc.).  Plus, "Social Wizards" are fun.  And there's a mindboggling array of terrific social skill boosting spells for a wizard in both 3.5 and PF.  Of course, there's the UMD-boosting advantage as well too.  I need to look more at PF traits, but I believe there might be a trait out there that converts all the Knowledge skills to CHA based instead INT based.  Which for a Charisma Wizard like the one you are looking for ... would be all sorts of awesome.

Plus, a wizard who can get maximized benefit with the typically sorceror-dominated spell, Ruin Delver's Fortune, is just tons of ace when it comes to immediate-action defensive goodness.

[ImperatorK]

Alternative option: Use Sage Sorcerer and make the character completely Int dependent (it's a Wizard/Sorcerer gestalt). I want to roleplay him as a manipulator and charmer, that's why I was going for Cha, but now that I think about it being smart and skilled instead of naturally good at it is also an option. But for it to work I need a way to make social skills Int dependent or at least get Int as a bonus to them. Int will help by giving more skillpoints for those skills, but I don't think that will be enough.

[phaedrusxy]

I don't know how to make it Int based (I thought I saw a feat for it in PF, but I can't remember the name... ) but there are traits that can certainly help. Illuminator and Patient Optimist, if they can both be taken, would give you a total of +4 to Diplomacy (against hostile or unfriendly), make it a class skill, and give you the ability to reroll checks (again against hostile and unfriendly).

For Bluff, there are spells that can boost it through the stratosphere (Glibness, etc).

[ImperatorK]

Trait bonuses don't stack.

[Rhyn]

Instead of your Sage sorcerer, you could go Beguiler. Full on Enchantment/Illusion, with  a lot of skill points. And already int based.

[ImperatorK]

Sorcerer is better.

[Arakkun]

Since you're playing a Gestalt, Sorc(Sage)/Beguiller should be even better.
The Wizard is kind of redunant, minus the Arcane bond(only in PF), Scribe Scroll and the Arcane Schools feats(only in PF), since it have the same spells as the Sorcerer.
The Beguiller have more class features, lots of slots and INT-based spellcasting.
If the reason you're playing the Wizard is the Spellbook, you can take the Arcanist(Pathfinder, INT-Based) with his Arcanist exploits.
If you choosed to take the Wizard with the Sorcerer anyway, you can after that Use the Ultimate Magus PrC to have a boost to both classes ( kind of a "dirty trick", since you can cast level 9 spells with both class at level 15 in Gestalt plays)
( Kind of a proof : )
Wizard 5/Ultimate Magus 10 ( Wizard SL: 17, Sorcerer SL 20 )
Sorcerer 13/Wizard 2

[phaedrusxy]

Dual progression classes are specifically banned in gestalt.