Magic item tropes/stories/plots

[Kajhera]

Not sure what trope or if magic is particularly important to it, but recall a Dungeon adventure where a goblin chief managed to recover the magic sword of an ancient hero who had defeated his tribe in ages past, and used the acquisition to rally them ...

[Unbeliever]

I think the biggest thing you might miss out on, which has been touched on above, is the kind of "found power" aspect to magic items.  The idea that a found magic item can profoundly change the balance of power, structure, etc.  Think of things like palantirs (technically palantiri, but let's not get too pedantic) or other found objects of power. 

[ImperatorK]

Palantirs are artifacts.

[Kerrus]

A better example is that players have incentive to quest for magic items because then they get those magic items- they have unique abilities that either bring them up to the tier that the people they want to be like are at, or nobody else has that magic item and it's a way to both be unique and adds a way to improve and enhance their character's build.

It gives them history to call upon.

Nobody wants to quest for the generic masterwork iron greatsword, but even a crappy magic sword can be much more enticing to the players, and once they get it they may be more inclined to keep it. But a sword that any random smith can forge? Less so. While obviously there are ways to make mundane items interesting, you'll still lose out on some of the wonder and feel-good-ism of getting a magic item, particularly one that can be useful to what you want to do with your character and how you enjoy playing the game.

Killing the dragon and recovering the magic sword of your father can be a really defining character event, both because it's a powerup from where you were, and because it ties in with your character arc. Yes, sure, you might want your father's sword back even if it wasn't magic- but then it doesn't have the reflection in the mechanics to make it special.

As much as people enjoy the RP aspects, people are also here to play the game, and if they wanted to do total freeform roleplay... they wouldn't be here.

[Unbeliever]

ImperatorK, how do I say this?  I think your approach to this thread renders it pointless.  You solicited a list of tropes/stories/plots that the campaign might miss given your houseruled approach to magic items.  But, your automatic response seems to be to shoot them down or claim some kind of exception to them, viz. your reply to my post (#22 above) and your response to Kajheera (#3, previous page). 

So, this thread boils down to you arguing against the very opinions and insights you yourself solicited.  If that's the case, then, what good is this thread doing?  What's its purpose?  Because as it stands now you come off as really defensive, which is bizarre b/c you were the one who solicited us to highlight potential pitfalls with the approach you were taking.

I'm not saying you need to be in love with every idea.  Mine are often of questionable quality.  But, it creates this weird one-sided debate (for lack of a better term) where you're the only one with a dog in the fight.

[ImperatorK]

But, your automatic response seems to be to shoot them down or claim some kind of exception to them

Just giving my opinion and trying to engage in a conversation. I could just keep silent, I guess, but then people would probably think I'm not interested in the thread anymore, which I still am, or that I'm ignoring their posts, which I'm not (posts I didn't repond to I'm still thinking over).

So, this thread boils down to you arguing against the very opinions and insights you yourself solicited.

So any response is arguing, huh? I'm not arguing anything, I'm just explaining how those things aren't a problem, in case the poster was wondering. And just because a post didn't exactly help me, doesn't mean it wasn't useful or appreciated.

If that's the case, then, what good is this thread doing?  What's its purpose?

Helping me make my game better. If you don't care about that and just want to be praised for your help, then know that I'm very thankful for each and every post, even those that I "argued" with.

Because as it stands now you come off as really defensive, which is bizarre b/c you were the one who solicited us to highlight potential pitfalls with the approach you were taking.

You're imagining things.

[Tonymitsu]

Because there's a difference between magic items that have their power regardless of anything, and gear that has powers only in possession of a specific person. The former can be bought or found. The later can't.
And it depends on the plot.

I think this is where I'm getting the disconnect.  I mean, sure, there's a difference, but near as I can tell it's largely fluff, so there really isn't too much of a change in actual gameplay except that players have to spend their money on things besides equipment.

Artifacts are still around and still work for everyone, so you are fine there.

There's nothing stopping the villain from having that one trinket that is the sole source of his power/lynchpin to his entire plan/final piece he needs to complete his death ray.  Except in your world, instead of spending ten years scouring the world for it's location, he's spending ten years amassing the points he will need to attune the object to himself.  And the consequences for the heroes swiping it are exactly the same: the bad guy's plans are out the window.  The only foreseeable change to me in this case is that you are removing the potential moral quandary of whether or not the heroes should use the bad guy's evil weapons against him


Maybe a better approach to this would be for me to ask you what plots you think you might miss out on?  And then maybe we can find a way to reconcile them with your rule.

[ImperatorK]

Artifacts are still around and still work for everyone, so you are fine there.

But they are plot items, and unlike normal items, can't be used for just anything. Understand, artifacts are powerful and often have world changing/shattering powers. That's why they can't be used as just any old McGuffins, unless it's a near Epic game and the McGuffin is important for saving/destroying the world. And that's why there being artifacts in my game doesn't eliminate potential issues with some plots. It only allows plots involving artifacts, not just any magic item.

There's nothing stopping the villain from having that one trinket that is the sole source of his power/lynchpin to his entire plan/final piece he needs to complete his death ray.

What do you mean exactly? If it's just a normal magic item then he can instead use a caster (or be one) to cast the appropriate spell. And if it's something that can't be handled by a spell then how would a magic item be better? Wouldn't that require an item of artifact level?

Except in your world, instead of spending ten years scouring the world for it's location, he's spending ten years amassing the points he will need to attune the object to himself. And the consequences for the heroes swiping it are exactly the same: the bad guy's plans are out the window. The only foreseeable change to me in this case is that you are removing the potential moral quandary of whether or not the heroes should use the bad guy's evil weapons against him.

Well, yes. So that's one thing that doesn't change. Doesn't mean that every other story/plot also doesn't change.

Maybe a better approach to this would be for me to ask you what plots you think you might miss out on?  And then maybe we can find a way to reconcile them with your rule.

That's the thing tho, I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

[SolEiji]

But they are plot items, and unlike normal items, can't be used for just anything. Understand, artifacts are powerful and often have world changing/shattering powers. That's why they can't be used as just any old McGuffins, unless it's a near Epic game and the McGuffin is important for saving/destroying the world. And that's why there being artifacts in my game doesn't eliminate potential issues with some plots. It only allows plots involving artifacts, not just any magic item.

Minor nitpick.  They are USUALLY awesome epic items.  However the thing that really seems to define artifact status is their inability to be created (due to lost knowledge or whatever) and inability to be suppressed in an AMF.  Otherwise, they're usually but not always world shattering things.

[ImperatorK]

Sorry, I probably should've mentioned that I'm talking about artifacts in my games. I thought it's obvious, but now I can see that there might be some misunderstanding.

[Tonymitsu]

What do you mean exactly? If it's just a normal magic item then he can instead use a caster (or be one) to cast the appropriate spell. And if it's something that can't be handled by a spell then how would a magic item be better? Wouldn't that require an item of artifact level?

It depends.  One of the fun parts of being a DM is that you can make up any object that has any powers or abilities you want.
You'll see this a lot in Bioware's D&D based games.  How exactly does the Planar Sphere in Baldur's Gate II work?  Why it's powered by a tanar'ri heart, of course, now go find one.  How did Irenicus extract part of your soul?  Because he's an ungodly powerful wizard, silly, he can do that.  What spells are we using that will turn this pile of animal parts into a cure for the Wailing Death?  Very carefully researched ones, now stand back.  Exactly what kind of ritual was used to create the Illefarn Guardian, and how did he manage to tap the Shadow Weave for power?  The kind that let's him smash your face.  Duck.  (This paragraph might have contained spoilers)

The details don't really matter if it's something you never intend to fall into the hands of the players.  If you can't think of something your rule would prevent off the top of your head, then I wouldn't worry about it.