How to build a Min Max Pacifism PC

[SolEiji]

[Jackinthegreen]

In argument and in life, trying to get a person to "think" by being derogatory or otherwise hurtful to them often tends to backfire and make the person more resolute in their stance, or at least more defensive.

Movieholic, as others are trying to point out to you, if you're going to try the pacifism angle on this group you are not going to get the results you think you will even if the DM allows you to use the Apostle of Peace and other assorted stuff.  If you're going to try and change the rest of the party, they are far more likely to grow resentful of you and perhaps the DM and just decide to leave and do their own thing.

The Apostle of Peace and many other things in the Book of Exalted Deeds are not numerically broken.  They are fundamentally broken from a gameplay perspective.  To give some comparison, let's say there's a hypothetical gun.  If said gun were numerically broken or overpowered it might do 10,000 damage in a single shot.  Since it's fundamentally broken though, it doesn't even fire that shot.  In fact, the gun doesn't even have a barrel to shoot the bullet.  That is how poorly designed a "Good" number of the things in the Book of Exalted Deeds are.  No matter how you turn your head or twist the gun around to look at it, it still won't have a barrel to even shoot if you're sticking to the books as written.

Can they be salvaged?  Some things can, but they often require an entire group that is on board with being Pacifists or can otherwise work with and build around certain limitations.  A really creative DM who knows numbers and sound game design front to back could also change things to work so that the party doesn't have to buy into the premise for the character concept to be playable.  From the sounds of it, neither is going to happen.

Basically, from the way you have laid out what you want to do, the people who have posted are saying "What you want to do is not going to work and you should probably scrap the idea."  I recommend listening to that statement since that sort of thing has actually been tried and it was a catastrophic failure which pondering a bit over should show precisely why.

Now, perhaps there has been some misunderstanding.  If you feel there has, could you kindly rephrase what you want to do?

[movieholic1977]

nope

the dm didn't care

we can play whatever we want no matter how much it hurts another player

so a blood bath is coming

time to research some more on some kind of pc that needs to be able to survive everything but magic is gonna be crippled but the dm won't say much or provide any details other than anything is ok

[movieholic1977]

So using the posts already i came up with this.....

Cloistered Cleric 7 / Wizard or Sorcerer 1 / Halruaan Elder 5 / Effigy Master 1

Feats          Halruaan Adept, Spell Thematics

Given the above Build, given that a 5th Level Halruaan Elder is a Circle Leader, Given that Circle Magic is Maximum 40th Level....

Does this mean that i can make an Effigy Tarraque which is a 48 Hit Die creature to go with my theme here?

What other Templates could be added to my effigy? is barding allowed and how do you figure out the costs?

Is this a good idea or just general thoughts?

[awaken_D_M_golem]

... the dm didn't care

we can play whatever we want no matter how much it hurts another player

so a blood bath is coming ...

Ohhh kaayy.


Effigy Master can stack piles of templates onto the effigy.
End result = t.o.-ish Str with lots of other goodies.
And you can have the damage be subdual to just knock out the bbeg.
robotic voice:  "Repent your sins, or we do it again."

[littha]

What other Templates could be added to my effigy? is barding allowed and how do you figure out the costs?

Barding is just armor at 1.5x the cost (for odd shape) plus adjustment for size.

Also: Effigy Hellwasp swarms.

[movieholic1977]

Trying to oversimplify here:

Archivist 15 build

200,000 starting gold due to 15th level and 3.5 Rules

I have the following items custom made:

1 Wand of Divine Insight                              unlimited use            not sure of costs
1 Wand of Guidance of the Avatar              unlimited use           not sure of costs

At 15th Level that's            1d20 + 1 rank in each skill + 3 Int bonus minimum + 20 Guidance + 5 Divine + 15 Caster Level =

1d20 + 44 for Dark Knowledge Use and Abuse enabling + 3 to various roles, party members, etc

Also enables the highest attainable Dark Knowledge

Feat Selection           Knowledge Devotion

Flavor and Deity Choice

I worship Gond whose Dominion is the House of Knowledge. I buy or make or use a scroll of planeshift to visit there with boatloads of ink and paper and gain access to every spell from every edition of DnD both past, present, and future. When i return i find my party and inform them i have every magic. Then i can do whatever at this point.

I would like to know how else would you build this, any other thoughts on whether this is a good idea or not?

thanks in advance,

Michael           
=========================================================================================
Divine Insight   (Complete Adventurer, p. 147)       Divination
Level: Cleric 2, Paladin 2,    Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action      Range: Personal   Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level or until discharged (D)

When you cast this spell, you invoke the power of your deity to guide your actions. Once during the spell's duration, you can choose to use its effect. This spell grants you an insight bonus equal to 5 + your caster level (maximum bonus of +15) on any single skill check. Activating the effect requires an immediate action. You must choose to use divine insight before you make the check you want to modify. Once used, the spell ends.

You can't have more than one divine insight effect active on you at the same time.
=========================================================================================
Guidance of the Avatar      Divination      Level: Clr 2
 Components: V, S        Casting Time: 1 action   Range: Touch    Target: Creature touched   
Duration: 1 minute or until discharged
Saving Throw: None   Spell Resistance: Yes

Your deity's chosen avatar imbues the subject with divine power. The creature gets a +20 competence bonus on a single skill check and must choose to use the bonus before making the roll to which it applies.
=========================================================================================

[Raineh Daze]

I worship Gond whose Dominion is the House of Knowledge. I buy or make or use a scroll of planeshift to visit there with boatloads of ink and paper and gain access to every spell from every edition of DnD both past, present, and future. When i return i find my party and inform them i have every magic. Then i can do whatever at this point.

You can't get spells from other versions of the game, since they're from other versions of the game. You also appear to have missed the important step of explaining how you're getting arcane spells on there. On top of that, 'every spell in the game' includes ninth level spells, which you don't have.

Overall, the character would be competent, if not astoundingly broken. You've got Knowledge Devotion, but you're not building yourself for combat and thus the bonuses are wasted on yourself, so you're probably better off rethinking your build if you want to use that. You've essentially focused your entire character into giving people +3 to attack, saves, and AC.

[movieholic1977]

because an Archivist needs a library in DnD 3.5 to copy scrolls from to add to their prayerbook, my Archivist worships Gond who has a Library in the House of Knowledge which houses all the arcane and divine spells, so a simple plane shift spell and lots of ink and time and paper can simply create a massive list of awesome spells which in turns creates a 15th level PC with access to all the spells for me to pick and choose from

my question is simple:

how do you build an archivist? can anyone post a 15th level build or a handbook?

i would love to focus on Knowledge as my theme which also fits into the Archivist theme

So feats like Knowledge Devotion are cool

any o ther suggestions on how to build an awesome archivist?

how do you add DMM Cleric Persist to this as well?

again i am seeking a build

thanks in advance,

Michael

[Raineh Daze]

What I don't see is how you're planning to add Arcane spells to your spellbook. Not where you're finding them, how you're casting.

DMM persist? That inquisitor PrC that gives turning? A dip of cleric to get Turning and use nightsticks as well?

[movieholic1977]

i figured that a divine archivist would take Alternate Source Spell, or a similar feat to enable divine spells cast as arcane and vice versa

its just one feat and all

so is my logic off that with Alternate Spell you can cast both any arcane or divine? which in turn allows any archivist to cast anything?


for reference:

Alternative Source Spell
Type: Metamagic
Source: Dragon #325

You can prepare any of your spells as either divine or arcane.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast both divine and arcane spells.
Benefit: You can choose to prepare any of your divine spells as arcane spells or any of your arcane spells as divine spells. An alternative-sourced spell uses up a spell slot from the class that normally grants the spell. Such a spell is prepared normally. An alternative-sourced spell is cast as if your caster level were 1 level lower. For example, a 1st-level cleric/6th-level wizard casts a divine fireball as a 5th-level wizard.

[Gazzien]

That would let you cast one of your divine spells as if it was an arcane spell (you would get AsF IIRC), not let you cast an arcane spell normally.

[Raineh Daze]

On top of that, a pure archivist doesn't meet the requirements to take it. Though from the example, it seems that with a Cleric 19/Wizard 1, you have access to literally every arcane and divine spell, since it suggests a first level arcane caster tossing a CL 5 third level spell around.

[ketaro]

On top of that, a pure archivist doesn't meet the requirements to take it. Though from the example, it seems that with a Cleric 19/Wizard 1, you have access to literally every arcane and divine spell, since it suggests a first level arcane caster tossing a CL 5 third level spell around.

No, that feat's example was a 1st level cleric and a 6th level wizard.

[Raineh Daze]

On top of that, a pure archivist doesn't meet the requirements to take it. Though from the example, it seems that with a Cleric 19/Wizard 1, you have access to literally every arcane and divine spell, since it suggests a first level arcane caster tossing a CL 5 third level spell around.

No, that feat's example was a 1st level cleric and a 6th level wizard.

Ah, so it is. Read it the wrong way round.

So maybe of use to get a wizard dancing around in full plate. -1 CL, everything is cast as a Divine spell.

[Tonymitsu]

1 Wand of Divine Insight                              unlimited use            not sure of costs

There's no such thing as an unlimited use wand.  Wands are spell-trigger items that hold a spell of 4th level or lower and have 50 charges, period.

An unlimited use wondrous item that does this would be Spell Level * Caster Level * 2,000 gp.
Divine Insight is a 2nd level spell, and in order to get the +15 insight bonus, it must be cast by someone of at least caster level 15, so that's 2 * 15 * 2,000 = 60,000
Of course that assumes it's something you wear on your person and takes up a magic item slot.  If it's something you just hold in your hand, you would double the cost, so that would be 120,000 gp total.

The same follows for an item of Guidance of the Avatar, except that one you only need caster level 3 so, it would be (2 * 3 * 2,000)² = 24,000

At 15th Level that's            1d20 + 1 rank in each skill + 3 Int bonus minimum + 20 Guidance + 5 Divine + 15 Caster Level =

1d20 + 44 for Dark Knowledge Use and Abuse enabling + 3 to various roles, party members, etc

Also enables the highest attainable Dark Knowledge

That requires you pre-cast Guidance on yourself once roughly every minute or so of walking around, due to their short durations.
Also Divine Insight requires an immediate action to use.

Feat Selection           Knowledge Devotion

Knowledge Devotion requires at least 5 ranks in one Knowledge skill.

Flavor and Deity Choice

I worship Gond whose Dominion is the House of Knowledge. I buy or make or use a scroll of planeshift to visit there with boatloads of ink and paper and gain access to every spell from every edition of DnD both past, present, and future. When i return i find my party and inform them i have every magic. Then i can do whatever at this point.

"Future editions of D&D" eh?

Oh, do tell.

[ketaro]

You do realize it costs money to add spells to your spellbook, right? Go try to figure out how much money it would cost you to have EVERY 3.5 spell. JUST 3.5 spells.

[Raineh Daze]

1 Wand of Divine Insight                              unlimited use            not sure of costs

There's no such thing as an unlimited use wand.  Wands are spell-trigger items that hold a spell of 4th level or lower and have 50 charges, period.

Eternal Wands are a thing. I think Eberron.

[Tonymitsu]

You do realize it costs money to add spells to your spellbook, right? Go try to figure out how much money it would cost you to have EVERY 3.5 spell. JUST 3.5 spells.

Shh.
Next he might realize you can only scribe one spell per day.

1 Wand of Divine Insight                              unlimited use            not sure of costs

There's no such thing as an unlimited use wand.  Wands are spell-trigger items that hold a spell of 4th level or lower and have 50 charges, period.

Eternal Wands are a thing. I think Eberron.

Those are charges per day.  He's talking about an at-will item.

[Raineh Daze]

You do realize it costs money to add spells to your spellbook, right? Go try to figure out how much money it would cost you to have EVERY 3.5 spell. JUST 3.5 spells.

Shh.
Next he might realize you can only scribe one spell per day.

1 Wand of Divine Insight                              unlimited use            not sure of costs

There's no such thing as an unlimited use wand.  Wands are spell-trigger items that hold a spell of 4th level or lower and have 50 charges, period.

Eternal Wands are a thing. I think Eberron.

Those are charges per day.  He's talking about an at-will item.

Ah.

In that case, your maths is still wrong--we're after a CL 10 item. It's 5+CL (max 15) not CL (max 15). So 40,000.