Elven Battle Cleric

[DoctorGlock]

So, technically it's a half demon elf cleric, but I am still running into some difficulties

I am trying to build a battle cleric with the lesser fey'ri race, but am having difficulties with stat allocations and feat choices

THIS IS E6
3.5/Pathfinder
34 point buy
2 Flaws

I am using the pathfinder chronicles campaign setting Holy Warrior ACF. I trade my domains and extra domain spell slot for D10 HD and full BAB. Yes, I know spells are better but I am trying to be primarily melee

Feats that must be included: Spellfire Wielder (flavor reasons), Battle Jump (I want to make use of the wings)

I do not want gear reliance.

I know miss chance trumps AC all the time, but I do not know my way around divine casters that well. Is there a way to get miss chances?
I will not be using DMM because I doubt I have enough feats. The Holy Warrior ACF should reduce the need for combat buffs

The Pros: Alternate Form, wings, a host of SLAs, +2 dex, +2 int, DR 10/+1, Fire Resist 10
The Cons: MAD, very MAD. -2 Con

Given these parameters, can you help make a deadly damager/tank?

-what feats should I grab?
-which flaws are best (currently thinking poor reflexes since i cant make those anyway and shaky)
-where should I spend my points?

[CE2JRH]

Well, in E6 your break points are 3rd level spells and BAB 6/1...so is it possible to make your last level Warblade 1? That will give you sudden leap, which lets you battle jump as a swift action (basically, swift action double damage attack at full BAB, heck yes) (though you'll probably provoke AoO's, and it will have a jump skill tax), punishing stance (+1d6 damage, -2 ac), and one or two other maneuvers.

Shaky is definitely an excellent flaw.
Since you're only getting 3rd level spells, it's highly likely you won't be doing any DC casting (since low level damges and save or dies on the cleric list are kinda meh), so you can stop at wisdom 14 (+2 item = 16, so your 3rd level bonus spell).

It's E6, so I'd highly recommend DMM, otherwise you're looking at normal major melee feat chains. I'm not an expert on pathfinder, but usually tripping/AoO is a decent choice (especially if you can be large).

34 pt buy, no modifiers, but keeping in mind your level 4 bump
Str: Whatevers left over; 12 if everything below is higher (4pts), 14 if charisma is dropped, 16 if int or dex is dropped. You can also save some points on dexterity by starting it at 15 and bumping it with your level boost.
Dex: If AoO's, 16. If not, 12. (4-10 pts)
Con: 14 (6 pts)
Int: 14 (6 pts) if combat expertise, whatever you want for skills is not (10-12, so 2-4 pts)
Wis: 14 (6 pts)
Cha: 8 or 10 (0-2 pts)


Really, it all depends on which feat chain you end up going for. Usually, I'd drop int and dex and go DMM persist and higher strength; something that looks like: Holy Warrior 5/Warblade 1
Str: 16 (10 pts)
Dex: 10 (2 pts)
Con: 14 (6 pts)
Int: 10 (2 pts)
Wis: 14 (6 pts) (+2 item)
Cha: 15+1 = 16 (8 pts)

With feats: (since you dropped domains)
Flaw: Extend Spell
Flaw: Presist Spell
Human: DMM Persist Spell (Now I see you're elven.  Uh, delay Spellfire wielder or Battlejump to your first E6 feat?)
Level 1: Extra turning
Level 3: Spellfire wielder
Level 6: Battlejump.

That gives you 10 turn undeads at level 1 (1 persist; probably lesser vigor if you can get away with touch spells)
You boost it to 14 (2 persists) with:
Reliquary Holy Symbol +2
Eagle's Splendor +2
Normally I'd put swap domain shenanigans here for charm domain, but you gave those away, and I'm short something clever, so I retroactively went up and changed stats.

If you can pull extend + persist shenanigans using a rod of metamagic extend, then your 4 persists are:
Lesser Vigor, Mass
Chanelled Divine Shield
Ice Axe (2d12+3 touch attacks deal cold damage, but lose your strength; good when you're first level 6 and would be using a +1 greatsword, worse when you've been level 6 a while and have a +1 Flaming Shocking greatsword with an acid augment)
Balor Nimbus

If you can't, I'd do just the defensive abilities, but DR 10/evil and Fast Healing 1 for you and 2 allies is awesome.

[DoctorGlock]

If there is a way to offset the onyx cost i can ignore the need for DMM with undead battery off of animate dead instead which frees up the extra turning slot
Spellfire is first only. I could drop battle jump since the flying charge rules already gives a battle jump like effect
How necessary is DMM? There is a fair chance it will be banned since the DM is fairly new to 3.5. If it is banned, how should I build?

[CE2JRH]

If you aren't going DMM, then as a melee cleric I almost always play a tripper, since that's the best available melee shtick outside of power attack multipliers.

Holy Warrior 5/Warblade 1 (Warblade 1 with Sudden Leap is really a must for any battle jumper, and a must in any E6 game, where you trade +1 to each save, and 1 second and 1 third level spell a day for +1 HP, +2 skills, +2 Fort Save, +1 int to reflex saves (if you have it), 1 stance and 3 maneuvers at IL 2; punishing stance, rabid wolf strike, sudden leap, and one more...Wall of Blades, perhaps?)

I'm a fan. But the Warblade/Non Warblade thing barely changes feats;

The options are "Go tripper" or "Do something strange."

Go tripper is like:
Str: Whatevers left over; 12 if everything below is higher (4pts), 14 if charisma is dropped, 16 if int or dex is dropped. You can also save some points on dexterity by starting it at 15 and bumping it with your level boost.
Dex: If AoO's, 16. If not, 12. (4-10 pts)
Con: 14 (6 pts)
Int: 14 (6 pts) if combat expertise, whatever you want for skills is not (10-12, so 2-4 pts)
Wis: 14 (6 pts)
Cha: 8 or 10 (0-2 pts)

Level 1: Spellfire Wielder
Flaw 1: Combat Expertise
Flaw 2: Improved Trip
Level 3: Combat Reflexes
Level 6: Battle Jump

Weapons: Guisarm (10 ft reach, tripping) + spiked gauntlets (no reach)
Further feats: Stand Still, Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain, and that one that gives +4 to AoO's.


Like, something strange is optimizing some weird combat style (not cleric archer), but like, going to complete warrior, picking something bizarre, and giving it a shot. If you want that, I can give some suggestions, but generally, 99.9% of the time, the answer is "tripper" or "DMM persist".

[Kethrian]

If you don't care about turn undead, take the Crusader cleric variant from Dragon 311.  You lose turn undead and domains, but gain tower shield proficiency, 1 martial weapon proficiency, Deific Foe (+4 to hit/damg vs worshippers of a chosen god), Turn Foe's Followers (turn undead but vs Deific Foe creatures), a Fighter bonus feat, and a smite attack.

[DoctorGlock]

Yeah, just heard from the DM that DMM is a no go. Oh well.

I like your tripper idea. I have never played one before and it should give me some combat ability beyond "I hit it with a stick" which was the direction I was going (Charger)

By combining the two archetypes I should be able to create a fairly good trip monster while still having buffs and utility to back it up. Aside from Ice Slick what kind of BC does a cleric get?

Edit: The trip modifier I have seems rather lackluster and the counter trip they get seems just ugly, how do I fix that?

Between desecrate and animate dead, what kind of minions should I pick up? Currently thinking 2 10 headed hydras provided I can A: Find them, B: Kill them
Anything more common in E6 that would make a good fodder tank/pack mule/house?

By combining archetypes I now have the following:
Holy Warrior Crusader 5/Warblade 1
St 15+1
Dx 16
Cn 14
In 14
Ws 14
Ch 8
Feats: 1: Spellfire, F: Combat Expertise, F: Improved Trip, 3: Battle Jump, B: Combat Reflexes, 6: Power Attack
HD: 5d10+1d12+12 (74 max, 50 avg)
AC: 21 (M. Full Plate, 3 dex)
Attack: +10/+5 (2d4+5/x3, +1V. Guisarme) or +7 ranged
Speed: 30, F30 (P)
Special: Divine Foe (+4 attack and damage when attacking faithful of chosen god), Turn Divine Foe 2/day, Alternate Form, DR 10/+1, Resist Fire 10, Spell like Abilities, Battle Clarity
SLA: 1/day- Enervation, Dimension Door
Spells: 5/4/3/1 or 18 Spell Points (DM is strongly considering), CL 5, Spontaneous Healing
Maneuvers: Rabid Wolf Strike, Sudden Leap, Mountain Hammer
Stances: Punishing Stance
Skills: Jump +9, Diplomacy +8, Spellcraft +8, Concentration +8
Saves: 8/2/6
+1 Valorous Guisarme (For when I do decide to charge), Mythril Full Plate, Spiked Gauntlets, big chunk of onyx (20HD worth)
Flaws: Shaky, Poor Reflexes

Not bad. I am worried about the attack modifier but since the tripping part is touch it should not be that bad, and I can always pop an ice axe or two

[DoctorGlock]

Holy warrior gets proficiency in deity's favored weapon, are there any with spiked chain?

str 16 and improved trip only give +7 to the attempt. How do I increase this? Most trippers have a good +16 or so by this level. Does the cleric get any size increases? Any humanoid alter self forms that will do?

[CE2JRH]

I do not believe so.

+2 Strength item and a wand of Enlarge person (UMD, or cast by a friendly mage) get you to +12.

Trip (especially in pathfinder) isn't a use always tool, it's a use against the right type of opponents tool. Often it will be charge, battle jump as a swift action, then full attack, regain maneuvers, battle jump.

You'll be tripping mages and other movement based creatures and characters.

Spell points are excellent if you can get them.

[DoctorGlock]

Fair enough. I might be able to get my DM to waive race requirements on jotunbrud but i can't count on that. and then it pushes back improved trip again.