Author Topic: Need help with Invocations, Soulmelds, and Vestiges  (Read 4738 times)

Offline faeryn

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Need help with Invocations, Soulmelds, and Vestiges
« on: October 19, 2014, 11:00:51 PM »
So after last saturday's game we advanced from all the way to level 24... and I've gone about doing a slight restructure of my build...

Battle Dancer:1/Fighter:2/Warock:1/Binder:2/(Incarnate or Totemist):2/Dragonfire Adept:1/Hellfire Warlock:3/Soulcaster:10/Anima Mage:2

I've got my Invocations all picked out now... but now I need some help with Soulmelds and Vestiges... Currently I have Strongheart Vest and Naberius

Since i'm playing a Clawlock I'm most effective in melee range, so any Soulmelds or Vestiges that will benefit me most in that area would be most appreciated... Additionally I have 2~3 feats available and not sure what else to take at this point...
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OK, so this is my first time using Incarnum classes and the Binder class... so I'm not really sure what to take when it comes to Soulmelds and what Vestiges I should look at for my build... Now since I'm taking them as an addition to the Warlock class and have the Hellfire Warlock prC I have already selected Strongheart Vest and bound Naberius... currently I can only bind one vestige, but I might continue with Anima Mage all the way to 10 which I believe would grant me a second or third vestige bound, if I do this what vestiges should I look at binding, and why do you recommend them?

As for Soulmelds, I'm still trying to make sense of most of the incarnum stuff honestly... so if I could get some suggestions as to what soulmelds I should look at using then that will greatly help... also suggestions on what chakra's I should bind each to...

Additionally any feats or items you'd recommend to pick up would also be appreciated.

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« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 10:38:07 PM by faeryn »

Offline keyes2k4

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2014, 10:39:30 AM »
You have your damage pretty well optimized. The only thing I would probably start adding is more utility like movement/teleport options and maybe some more debuff type things. I would probably do more levels of regular warlock and maybe pick up some extra invocations.


Offline faeryn

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2014, 02:08:14 AM »
You have your damage pretty well optimized. The only thing I would probably start adding is more utility like movement/teleport options and maybe some more debuff type things. I would probably do more levels of regular warlock and maybe pick up some extra invocations.
I'm honestly not to worried on the damage department for that reason... I find myself quite effective at optimizing damage output of arcane-roguish characters and applied that train of thought to this build as well... this is actually my first natural weapons user TBH... and learning just out much absurd the natural weapons rules actually are made it so much easier to optimize her damage... plus a few helpful suggestions from others on these boards about feats such as Beast Strike... and the Eldritch Claws feat that the build is based around.

Any Recommendations on Invocations to pick up at this point going forward?... I should mention as of this past saturday I have officially picked up my 3rd and final level of Hellfire Warlock, so all levels from now on are either continuing Warlock or taking up some Arcane Caster prestige class with useful bonuses...

As for movement, I will actually have have Teleport as a Psi-like ability 3/day in 3 more levels... I already fly at 80ft and have a 70ft enhanced land speed... I suppose the spring attack line of feats might be worth investing in...

I'm not really sure what sort of debuffs would help this build... though we did discover on saturday that I'm a very very fragile glass cannon build... I can eliminate most enemies in a single round of attacks... but I can also be killed just as easily... we had a near party-wipe at the hand of elven archers... I was among the casualties... the surviving party members payed for true resurrections.

Ranger's hitting Touch AC with splitting arrows hurts...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 02:28:51 AM by faeryn »

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2014, 03:03:17 PM »
Why bother with Spring Attack when you fully qualify for Flyby Attack?

Do you have miss chances?  Pumping AC can work, but getting miss chances means you'd have some way of guaranteeing you take less damage against pretty much everything.  Cloak of Displacement comes to mind and functions as long as the enemy doesn't have True Seeing or other effects that negate it.

If you want more invocations you might consider the Infernal Adept feat found at http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070613 that would allow you to take a Least invocation from the Dragonfire Adept list.

If the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft book can be taken from, there's the Codex Advocare item that grants a Least invocation.

The Ring of Entropic Deflection (MiC p 123) might be helpful against ranged attacks.

Offline faeryn

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2014, 05:17:46 PM »
Why bother with Spring Attack when you fully qualify for Flyby Attack?
I keep forgetting all about Flyby Attack >.<

Do you have miss chances?  Pumping AC can work, but getting miss chances means you'd have some way of guaranteeing you take less damage against pretty much everything.  Cloak of Displacement comes to mind and functions as long as the enemy doesn't have True Seeing or other effects that negate it.
I shall indeed add a source of Miss Chance... I can't believe I forgot about that...

If you want more invocations you might consider the Infernal Adept feat found at http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070613 that would allow you to take a Least invocation from the Dragonfire Adept list.
That feat will come in handy... There are a couple Least & Lesser DFA invocations that I would love to add to my list... however I'm mostly looking for some suggestions as to what Invocations I should actually take at this point... even with that feat I'll still have to select my remaining Warlock invocations at some point...

If the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft book can be taken from, there's the Codex Advocare item that grants a Least invocation.
I'll have to ask my DM about this one... if he does allow it though he'll probably make it as a treasure-loot only item...

The Ring of Entropic Deflection (MiC p 123) might be helpful against ranged attacks.
The party as a whole took some countermeasures against ranged attacks after that encounter... When your highest damage dealer dies in one shot, the second highest barely walks away, and your tank runs for the hills... you know you're missing something important.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 05:19:17 PM by faeryn »

Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2014, 03:49:58 AM »
Would a Binder dip be out of the question?

Offline faeryn

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2014, 06:13:31 AM »
Would a Binder dip be out of the question?

not entirely... and I know what your getting at... "bind Naberius"... I guess I may as well take the dip for that so that I'll have a natural regeneration of ability damage should I find myself taking any down the road...

Offline keyes2k4

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2014, 09:32:23 AM »
So I made a list of invocations which I think could benefit you in some way. Hope some of this helps.

Suggested invocations:
Least:
Baleful utterance
   infinite shatter may not be very powerful for attacking, but it has immense purpose when dungeon delving.  Destroy that trap from afar, break into a    door, intimidate your enemies.
Devil's sight
   use in conjunction with the lesser invoc hungry darkness to make a pain field around you which you can see through but most of your enemies will not. 

Lesser:
Curse of Despair
   nothing like a standard action to bestow curse upon your enemies.  Straight forward debuff.
Beshadowed blast (essense)
   good for blinding enemy casters to prevent them from targeting you from afar, also use with chain to potentially effect multiple targets
hungry darkness
   works well with devil's sight, basically creates a painfield over an area, then you can fight your enemies while seein just fine while they can't see.
walk unseen
   you had mentioned that you're a little glass-cannon.  This will allow you to get the jump on most foes unless your DM is smart and knows to give some    enemies detect invisibility or similar.
flee the scene
   Nothing quite like unlimited dimension doors, and the afterimage that it leaves behind could buy you a round

Greater:
Chilling tentacles
   Evard's black tenticals have their uses, even against foes much stronger.
Eldritch cone
   an AOE effect for your e-blast for delivering essence debuffs that's easier to control who gets hit, I like it.
Noxious blast
   a nasty debuff to apply to target(s)

dark:
Eldritch doom
   While it's not optimal, if you're already in melee range of your enemies this will allow you to try to apply your debuffs in a large area
Retributive invisibility
   This is way better than walk unseen, and you'll be less likely to get smacked by opponents who can't detect you properly
utterdark blast
   bwahaha a DM's worst nightmare, grants target(s) of your blast 2 negative levels.  Also gives most DM's a headache when trying to calculate what this       actually affects.
word of changing
   baleful polymorph, enough said.

As for feats i suggest quicken SLA
   allows you to blast and then attack/move 3 times a day, giving you more time to do what you do best (natural attacks)

Offline faeryn

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 05:24:47 PM »
Thanks, most of those do look useful...

A couple of them not so much...

Devil's Sight: The whole party is already under the effects of Deeper Darkvision at all times...
Baleful Utterance: We rarely have a use for shatter...
Chilling Tentacles: Might be useful, but it's questionable as to how often it will succeed in grappling in this campaign... if at all...

Offline keyes2k4

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 09:45:39 PM »
good point, the tentacles probably won't be very useful at this high of a level.

baleful utterance shenanigans are my favorite. shatter the rope holding up the chandelier. Shatter the lock on that chest, shatter the door blocking the way, shatter the enemy wizard's spell component pouch, shatter the donkey's harness (startling it in the process), shatter the king's crown.  There's so many things you could do with this spell with infinite uses per day (well, limited only by the number of rounds.).  This is why I mention it, it's the ultimate in fluff utility spells.  My DM got tired of me shattering things after 1 session.

Devils sight is of course useless if your whole party already has deeper darkvision.  It was a suggestion only based on how devastating a melee combatant shrouded in darkness can be against opponents who cannot see.  If you're already improved invisible through other means also (like the dark invocation), it's totally useless.

Offline faeryn

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2014, 02:12:53 AM »
Devils sight is of course useless if your whole party already has deeper darkvision.  It was a suggestion only based on how devastating a melee combatant shrouded in darkness can be against opponents who cannot see.  If you're already improved invisible through other means also (like the dark invocation), it's totally useless.

This warlock is for little side-campaign while our DM gets everything ready to continue our main campaign into epic levels, and in that campaign I play a spellthief who has a ring of the darkhidden as an item familiar with Darkness as a special ability on it... so I'm well aware of how devastating a melee combatant shrouded in darkness can be against opponents who cannot see, it's made even better with the addition of the Darkstalker feat... My DM got a bit frustrated trying to successfully locate me while I was solo fighting one of his "mini-boss" creatures in a dungeon... I almost beat it without even getting attacked because it simply couldn't locate me for most of the fight.

Offline faeryn

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Re: Help finishing a Hellfire Clawlock build (Now with Soulmelds and Vestiges)
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 02:19:14 PM »
So after last saturday's game we advanced from all the way to level 24... and I've gone about doing a slight restructure of my build...

Battle Dancer1/Fighter2/Warock1/Binder2/(Incarnate or Totemist)2/Dragonfire Adept1/Hellfire Warlock3/Soulcaster:10/Anima Mage:2

I've got my Invocations all picked out now... but now I need some help with Soulmelds and Vestiges... Currently I have Strongheart Vest and Naberius

Since i'm playing a Clawlock I'm most effective in melee range, so any Soulmelds or Vestiges that will benefit me most in that area would be most appreciated... Additionally I have 2~3 feats available and not sure what else to take at this point...