Want to make a high damage melee character. Help appreciated.

[Yilstrom]

I'm looking to make a character with the highest possible melee damage output. Book of nine swords is out. Pretty much everything else is ok.

I know this has been discussed a hundred times or more but I'm relatively new here and just wanted to get some of your thoughts.

I would like the character to have a more traditional feel if possible. Would also like a two weapon fighting style.

[Gavinfoxx]

Two weapon fighting style != high melee damage output.  Sorry.  If you want to get damage in the thousands, you have to two hand.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026

[Maat Mons]

What exactly is your idea of “High damage?”  As Gavinfoxx mentioned, you can get damage in the thousands at high level. 

If you have a lower idea of “high damage,” an option that might appeal to you is playing a gish (a combination melee/caster character) who casts greater mighty wallop (Races of the Dragon) on two war maces (Complete Warrior).  It chews up feats, but you wind up with one-handed weapons that have 8d6 base damage at high level. 

Also, what levels will this be played at? 

[Satori]

Insert obligatory "Incarnum is so under-appreciated that people can't even bother to mention it's banned" comment here.

Barbarian for pounce, Stacking PA nonsense, blah blah blah.  Why does this require a new topic?

[nijineko]

goliath monk with ring of greater mighty wallop +5 and improved natural attack feat. there is another thing or two that can be added, but you stack on enough effective size increases and you'll be able to dish out somewhere around 48d8+? or more per hit, iirc. i have the build around here somewhere.

you can even take the two weapon fighting chain and use your off-hand unarmed strike for extra attacks at the same damage (but half strength, iirc). just be sure you don't use that limb during your flurry.

[Solo]

I'm looking to make a character with the highest possible melee damage output. Book of nine swords is out. Pretty much everything else is ok.

I know this has been discussed a hundred times or more but I'm relatively new here and just wanted to get some of your thoughts.

I would like the character to have a more traditional feel if possible. Would also like a two weapon fighting style.

Opinions on Lightning Mace?

[Shiki]

Hood.

[Yilstrom]

Thanks for all the help so far.

The character is level 17 now. Going for level 20. Going to cap it there. Just started playing these guys again after taking a few years off and they need some reworking.

We want to stick to his original theme as close as possible. He uses two swords and I would like to ramp up his damage to a level that won't break the game. Not looking for outrageous damage that defies all the CR's.

The game we are playing is more about story than mechanics but we want to have the best characters we can get without getting into the absurd.

Also have a dagger thrower, monk, and assassin type in the group if anyone has any ideas about those

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay, so with two swords, there isn't a WHOLE LOT you can do.  First you make them two short swords, that will mitigate some of your issues.  Then you are going to have to go scouting for a source of extra damage on a per attack basis -- sneak attack works great.  However, this is a VERY VERY suboptimal combat style that takes an INCREDIBLE amount of effort just to stay relatively competent.  You won't ever be a 'high damage' melee character.  Here is what person_man says about this style:

"Precision Damage + Lots of Attacks
   Pro: Precision Damage (Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, and Skirmish) provides relatively good bonus damage independent of your BAB. Doesn't penalize your To-Hit or AC (like Power Attack or Shock Trooper). Ambush feats can also add status effects.
    Con: Requires a trigger (Flanking and/or Denied Dex or moving 10 ft). Lots of enemies are immune to Precision Damage. Bonus dice of damage aren't multiplied. Damage does not scale as well as other options (Power Attack, Dungeoncrasher, Claws of the Beast, ToB manuevers, etc).
    Level of Effort: Intense. You're probably going to want some combination of Two Weapon Fighting feats or Multiweapon Fighting, natural attacks, a Haste effect, and an Attack of Opportunity Combo. You're also going to want to invest in some way to get past Precision Damage immunity, such as Dragonfire Strike, alternate class features, or wands. And you're going to want Ambush feats to add status effects
    Best Used Against: Anyone who isn't immune.
    Commentary: If your goal is to be excellent at melee, then don't rely on Precision Damage. The return on investment is never going to be as good as a Power Attack combo or a scaled power related combo (psionics, ToB, incarnum, etc). However, if your goal is to an excellent Skill Monkey and you don't want to play a Factotum or Beguiler or Incarnate, then you'll probably need to learn how to optimize this. Here's a good mini-guide http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6893722&postcount=35. It's worth mentioning that if you can just pick up a few dice of Sneak Attack without sacrificing BAB, via Blackguard or a similar prestige class, then it's worth picking up a feats (like Craven and Staggering Strike) to supplement your Sneak Attack without a huge investment."

Also here's this handbook:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233

which should help some.

[TravelLog]

Hulking Hurler. You can do some nasty things with that one.

[Maat Mons]

Dervish (Complete Warrior) may suit your needs.  That gives you +5 to attack and damage and the ability to full-attack and move your speed in the same round. 

It's possible to utilize power attack with two-weapon fighting, but it's not as good as doing it with a two-handed weapon.  You need to take oversized two-weapon fighting (Complete Adventurer) to get the same damage returns, and the penalty to attack rolls means you'll be power attacking for two less. 

[Dreamweaver]

You could try something like this.

(click to show/hide)

               Start         20
Str           14            15(26)   
Dex          17            21(32)
Con         14            14(24)   
Int           13            13   
Wis          10            10   
Cha          8              8   
   32(0)

Human, Two-Headed (from Savage Species)
2 racial HD/Barbarian 1/Fighter 8/Disciple of Dispater 8/xxx1
Use Lion Totem from Complete Champion with Whirling Frenzy from Unearthed Arcana

Disciple of Dispater: Any evil, Disciple of Darkness, Combat Expertise, Power Attack

So total feets needed: (10)

Combat Reflexes (gained from "multi-headed" template), Weapon Focus[Light Mace], Two Weapon Fighting (assuming Superior TWF from the "multi-headed" template from Savage Species can replace), Lightning Mace; Combat Expertise,
Power Attack, Disciple of Darkness; Improved Unarmed Strike, Roundabout Kick, Weapon Finesse

Feats: [Flaws: 2; Human: 1; Fighter 8: 5; Normal Levels: 7; Total: 15]
F1: Weapon Finesse; F2: Weapon Focus[Ligh Mace]
1) Disciple of Darkness (1st), Combat Expertise (Human)
2) Power Attack (F1)
3) Lightning Mace (3rd),  Improved Unarmed Strike (F2)
5) Roundabout Kick (F4)
6) Weapon Specialization [Light Mace] (6th)
9) Improved Critical[Kukri] (9th)
12) Improved CE (12th) (or Snap Kick)
15) Melee Weapon Mastery[Bludgeoning] (15th)
17) Greater Weapon Focus[Light Mace] (F8)
18) xxx (18th)

Level 20: 2 racial HD/Barbarian 1/Fighter 8/Disciple of Dispater 8/xxx 1

Hps: 248+zz = 12 (max HD for Barbarian) +96 (1/2 HD +1 for F and DoD) +xx (from racial HD) +yy (from xxx)
                            +140 (per lvl/HD from Con)

AC: 34 = 10 + 5 (armor) +11 (Dex) +4 (natural) +4 (deflection)
Touch: 25; Flat-Footed: 34

w/Combat Expertise:
AC: 54 = 10 + 5 (armor) +11 (Dex) +4 (natural) +4 (deflection) +20 (dodge)
Touch: 45; Flat-Footed: 54

w/Charge:
AC: 52 = 10 + 5 (armor) +11 (Dex) +4 (natural) +4 (deflection) +20 (dodge) -2
Touch: 43; Flat-Footed: 52

w/Haste:
AC: 53 = 10 + 5 (armor) +11 (Dex) +4 (natural) +4 (deflection) +20 (dodge) +1 (dodge) -2
Touch: 44; Flat-Footed: 53

w/Whirling Frenzy:
AC: 35 = 10 + 5 (armor) +11 (Dex) +4 (natural) +4 (deflection) +2 (dodge) +1 (dodge) -2
Touch: 26; Flat-Footed: 35


Initiative: +11


BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5
FAB: +38/+33/+28/+23
w/STWF:
  Main: +38/+33/+28/+23
  Off: +38/+33/+28/+23
w/Charge: (5 attacks)
  Main: +40/+35/+30/+25
  Off: +40/+35/+30/+25
w/Whirling Frenzy: (6 attacks)
  Main: +38/+38/+33/+28/+23
  Off: +38/+33/+28/+23
w/Haste: (7 attacks)
  Main: +39/+39/+39/+34/+29/+24
  Off: +39/+34/+29/+24

Kukri Crit Range: 18-20 (base) -> 15-20 (Improved Crit) -> 9-20 (Iron Power) [60% crit chance]


Normal Damage:
  Main: 1d4 +15
  Off: 1d4 +11

w/Greater Iron Hews:
  Main: 1d4 +21
  Off: 1d4 +17

w/Whirling Frenzy:
  Main: 1d4 +23
  Off: 1d4 +18

w/Power Attack:
  Main: 1d4 +43
  Off: 1d4 +38

F: +25+zz = 14 +7 +4 +(whatever 2 racial HD and xxx 1 gives)
R: +23(27)+zz = 8 +11 +4 (w/Whirling Frenzy: +2; if not flat-footed: +1; w/Haste: +1)+(whatever 2 racial HD and xxx 1 gives)
W: +12+zz = 8 +0 +4 +(whatever 2 racial HD and xxx 1 gives)


Grand Total: 734016 gp
  Non-Magic Items: [Total: 50 gp]
  xChain Shirt [100 gp]

  Magic Items: [733966 gp]
  Everlasting Rations [350 gp]
  Replenshing Skin [1000 gp]
  Gloves of Str and Dex +6 [36000 gp +54000 gp = 90000 gp]
  2x +3 Aptitude Kukri [32308 gp]
  Ring of Mind Shielding [8000 gp]
  Boots of Speed [12000 gp]
  Ring of Protection +4 [32000 gp]
  Cloak of Resistance +4 [16000 gp]
  Shirt of Con +6 [36000 gp]
  Amulet of NA +4 [32000 gp]
  Bracers of Armor +5 [25000 gp]
  2x Greater Demolition Crystal [6000 gp]
  2x Greater True Death Crystal [10000 gp]
  Manuel of Health +4 [110000 gp]
  Manuel of Quickness in Action +5 [137500 gp]
  Manuel of Gainful Exercise +5 [137500 gp]

I had to mod it a bit to remove ToB so it isn't exactly spelled out appropriately, but you get the idea.

Of course, making your guy a 2-headed human might not be what you are looking for.   

[Gavinfoxx]

I don't think his already existing character can suddenly grow another head, you know?

Anyway, I prefer two weapon fighting with greatsword and armor spikes, or if you REALLY want to combine fighting styles, spiked shield (two handed, of course) and armor spikes.  That combines two handed, access to a shield, AND two weapon fighting...

[Lycanthromancer]

What about a psychic warrior/illithid slayer/ghostbreaker (from Hyperconscious) with Metamorphosis, after having crafted a psychoactive skin of proteus? Take TWF and the gloves of the balanced hand, Metamorphosis into something with two pairs of arms and crazy Str (such as a girallon), and THF while you TWF. And since you're a psywar, you can move and attack, or pounce on a charge. And you can have a pet psicrystal which you can buff to the 9s and have attack as well.

[Mixster]

Have you thought of doing a bard?

You could go
Bard 9/Whirling Frenzy Pouncing Barbarian 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Arcane PrC 2

With Dragonfire inspiration and Inspire Courage Optimization. You could easily be dishing out 12d6+12 damage extra on all of your attacks. Couple it with Arcane Disciple (War) so you get Divine Power for Full BAB, and you are set with a high caster level, and melee capabilities to fall back on.

Might be too gishy for you.

An alternative could be a smite to song paladin that optimizes inspire courage.

[Satori]

An alternative could be a smite to song paladin that optimizes inspire courage.

If you go that route, make it a full on Buffadin.  battle Blessing, Companion Spirits instead of mount, etc.

Azurin Paladin 20 (harmonious Knight Sub levels)

Flaw) Dynamic Priest (so you don't have to bother with WIS)

A) Sapphire Smite

1) Smite to Song

3) Snowflake Wardance (persuade your DM to allow you to burn HK's IC uses for this, or if you can, for all general BM stuff)

6) Initiate of Milil - Massive swap out time.  Trade Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart - yes, you can do this, since you have Insp. Confidece as a paladin ability at this level as well. Trade Inspire Courage for Inspire Awe.  Heck, trade Suggestion for something if you don't want it - you'll eventually get mass suggestion back anyway.  You can also swap out Song of Freedom at 12 if you want, though personally it seems very flavorful for a paladin.  I'm not in favor of swapping out Inspire Greatness, as you pick up HK uses of that very slowly.

9) Devoted performer -if you can't get your DM to let you use the HK's IC ability to power other bardic music.  get Words of Creation if your DM is crazy and allows it.

12) Battle Blessing

15) open

18) open

Assuming your DM allows you to stack MW Lute and Vest of Legends for your virtual bard level....  You can get a very nice IC bonus, full BAB, and a crapload of music.

[Shiki]

An alternative could be a smite to song paladin that optimizes inspire courage.

If you go that route, make it a full on Buffadin.  battle Blessing, Companion Spirits instead of mount, etc.

Azurin Paladin 20 (harmonious Knight Sub levels)

Flaw) Dynamic Priest (so you don't have to bother with WIS)

A) Sapphire Smite

1) Smite to Song

3) Snowflake Wardance (persuade your DM to allow you to burn HK's IC uses for this, or if you can, for all general BM stuff)

6) Initiate of Milil - Massive swap out time.  Trade Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart - yes, you can do this, since you have Insp. Confidece as a paladin ability at this level as well. Trade Inspire Courage for Inspire Awe.  Heck, trade Suggestion for something if you don't want it - you'll eventually get mass suggestion back anyway.  You can also swap out Song of Freedom at 12 if you want, though personally it seems very flavorful for a paladin.  I'm not in favor of swapping out Inspire Greatness, as you pick up HK uses of that very slowly.

9) Devoted performer -if you can't get your DM to let you use the HK's IC ability to power other bardic music.  get Words of Creation if your DM is crazy and allows it.

12) Battle Blessing

15) open

18) open

Assuming your DM allows you to stack MW Lute and Vest of Legends for your virtual bard level....  You can get a very nice IC bonus, full BAB, and a crapload of music.

Sounds alot like what I suggested to another person somewhere on the last boards (pretty sure I wasn't the first that thought about it though, but I can't recall who did), except for Snowflake Wardance which is a nice addition, so I'll say: well thought sir/madam.

[littha]

Have you thought of doing a bard?

You could go
Bard 9/Whirling Frenzy Pouncing Barbarian 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Arcane PrC 2

With Dragonfire inspiration and Inspire Courage Optimization. You could easily be dishing out 12d6+12 damage extra on all of your attacks. Couple it with Arcane Disciple (War) so you get Divine Power for Full BAB, and you are set with a high caster level, and melee capabilities to fall back on.

Might be too gishy for you.

An alternative could be a smite to song paladin that optimizes inspire courage.

Along these lines:
Bard 6/Barbarian (Lion 1)/Battle Dancer 1/Dragon Slayer 1/ Fighter 1/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Incantantrix 4

Which is the build I am using for my character in one of the PbP games on the site.

16 BAB, 9th level spells plus bardic music and hood goodness. It is a bit MAD though...

[SorO_Lost]

I hilariously just posted how to get 72 Charisma as an Incantatrix and yesterday spoke of Iaijutsu Master.

Guess what Ur-Priest and a Domain Staff of the Spell Domaincan do for you? Same thing, but Divine sided and no ten level investment for Presist Spell (go rebuke!). Did I mention it's 10 levels for 9th level spells and can be entered by level 5? Yeah, there is room for Iaijutsu Master. Start off as a Monk for a nice bump to saves and Unarmed for your attack.

72 Charisma = +31 mod * nine dice = +9d6+279 damage per Iaijutsu attack.
Oh, I'm sure you can get +24d6+22 Sneak Attack with the ability to reroll 1s though items, I know I could come really really close if not. +428.5 per hit, 9th level divine spells, it isn't bad. Well I'm in a broken mood right now.

Venomfire works on any natural weapon that delivers poison but only works if you naturally produce poison. Fanged Ring makes you unarmed attacks deal Poison, so either pick a race or claim your grafted tail naturally produces poison and it's part of your natural body now. Either way Miracle up some caster level's worth of d6s to your damage. Say CL 20 because you haven't abused Death Knell. Average is almost +500 bonus damage per attack. I have no idea what you'll do for your base unarmed damage or if your using Power Attack or Pouncing, I'm just talking bonus damage here.

And you say GTWF/Snap Kick/Flurry Of Blows/Bracers of Blinding Strike/Haste-or-Speed/Divine Power for 11 such attacks per turn?

[Yilstrom]

Thanks for all the great ideas guys! I have always been interested in character optimization but am only now learning how deep it actually goes. 

I am very interested in the two mace method with greater mighty wallop.  Is there any way to enchant a weapon with that spell? Also I would like for him to capitalize on as many AoO as possible what is the best way to pump up that number. Is there any way to get more than one AoO against the same target in the same round?

For my Dagger thrower I decided to go Fighter (targeteer) dragon mag. 310 lvl 8 / Swashbuckler lvl 3 / Rogue for the rest.  Also thought about maybe finishing it out with scout and go for the skirmishing attacks instead. I like the idea of being highly mobile to get range.

For the monk character in out our group I was thinking a ring of greater mighty wallop.

Not really sure what to do about the assassin type yet.

We are trying to keep these character within the realm of realism...well as much as possible in a fantasy setting. Think Lord of the Rings. I know that will limit us on optimization but we just want strong built characters, not trying to ramp damage up to the thousands. We still want to be able to use the challenge rating system.

In the near future I'm gonna talk my group into making a party of super optimized characters, lvl 20 just for the fun of it. I wanna see what a group of characters like that would be capable of. lol

Also, do you guys think book of 9 swords is unbalaced? We have decided not to use it because some people were concerned that it may be. After seeing the way these characters are optimized though I'm starting to rethink that.