Interest Check-Blood Crusade against Thoon (3.X, high level, Evil)

[ketaro]

So, it looks like we've got a group here.  What's everybody going to be (because I'm that guy that likes keeping track)?

Pyroclastic Dragon 18/Thoon Soldier 2

I'm actually looking at metabreath stuff but I'll likely be fairly "HULK SMASH" whenever a physical obstacle comes up

TC_X0_Lt_0X mentioned being really interested in being in a game he can play a Vile Slime Girl which I believe uses Living Spells as it's basis.

[phaedrusxy]

Hmmm.... a game where I can just play?  And evilness?  I almost feel too late to the party...

I'm having a hard time finalizing my idea, and will have a hard time finding time to build whatever it comes out to be. So if it comes down to the two of us, you can certainly have my slot.

[FireInTheSky]

Also late to the party.

Was thinking of something involving Nightmare Beast. Maybe with Paragon or Pseudonatural Creature. Though that would have been another melee, and possibly one of the weaker ones...

In any case, there are way too many who've expressed interest, so nevermind.

[Jackinthegreen]

Infernal?  Multi-headed hell hound?

Or fiendish tyrannosaurus warlock shooting lasers Eldritch Blasts everywhere?

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

TC_X0_Lt_0X mentioned being really interested in being in a game he can play a Vile Slime Girl which I believe uses Living Spells as it's basis.

Probably Living Spell 19/Soul Eater 1. I can probably drop 1 more level off of Living Spell for something else if need be.

Probably Primary as Miracle for that versatility, and a few evil spells past that.
Is ocular spell acceptable to make target spells into rays? It would be pretty great to have Touch of Juiblex.

[SorO_Lost]

I like the idea. Lower their Saves and attempt to slime them.

All through I'd just go Living Spell 20 and pick up Enervation as a secondary Spell to deal 1d4 Negative Levels per hit. 
1d4+1 I suppose works too, but then you miss out on the swift action spell swap in case your secondaries are not working out for you.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

I like the idea. Lower their Saves and attempt to slime them.

All through I'd just go Living Spell 20 and pick up Enervation as a secondary Spell to deal 1d4 Negative Levels per hit. 
1d4+1 I suppose works too, but then you miss out on the swift action spell swap in case your secondaries are not working out for you.

You are probably right.
I thought that required a save but I guess not, so it's only real drawback is the SR, but I should be able to penertrate most SR.  And Mournland Legacy is indeed really strong.

[SorO_Lost]

Speaking of, don't forget Greater Wounding. You can snag an Amulet of Natural Weapons (either as a necklace or ioun stone) to double up Spells with Enhancements on your Slam. GW is out of the 3.0-to-3.5 Update Booklet, +4 cost & 2 Con damage per hit.

Infernal?  Multi-headed hell hound?

Or fiendish tyrannosaurus warlock shooting lasers Eldritch Blasts everywhere?

Needs Half-Golem and a ninja suit and you're set

[Frogman55]

So, for funsies, what happens if the wisdom drain from an allip's madness drops the wisdom below the point where a spell could be cast?

For example, a cleric hits someone with a geas spell, but the drain drops him down to Wis 12. Does Geas still go off, or is it prevented by Madness? Similarly, if a wizard casts mass suggestion (or whatever), and he gets dropped to Wis 0, what comes first, the unconsciousness or the spell?

(Btw: I'm looking at an average 21 points of wisdom damage with this power, it'll be fun. Even if someone is immune to ability drain, it'll still do an average 10 points.

[SorO_Lost]

The FAQ addressed Ready Actions screwing up the time continuity so you can read up there or take my example.

If a Cleric hits someone with Geas they are no longer casting it now are they?
On the other hand if the Cleric is casting Geas and the Allip AoOs him, because the Cleric was too dumb to cast defensively, the Wisdom Drain can make the action illegal so it doesn't finish.

Same with Suggestion. If the Wizard already cast it then they remain under the effect of it (generally until they can take the action that was suggested). If the Wizard as hit with a Ready Action  and reduced to 0 Wisdom as a result, then the action of Spellcasting fails and doesn't happen.

Ready Actions happen before and AoOs resolve before their respective triggers do, even if it would invalidate them.

[Frogman55]

The FAQ addressed Ready Actions screwing up the time continuity so you can read up there or take my example.

If a Cleric hits someone with Geas they are no longer casting it now are they?
On the other hand if the Cleric is casting Geas and the Allip AoOs him, because the Cleric was too dumb to cast defensively, the Wisdom Drain can make the action illegal so it doesn't finish.

Same with Suggestion. If the Wizard already cast it then they remain under the effect of it (generally until they can take the action that was suggested). If the Wizard as hit with a Ready Action  and reduced to 0 Wisdom as a result, then the action of Spellcasting fails and doesn't happen.

Ready Actions happen before and AoOs resolve before their respective triggers do, even if it would invalidate them.

The problem is that it isn't a readied action or an AoO. Here's the text from Os' homebrew: "Anyone targeting an allip with a thought detection, mind control, or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of Wisdom damage."

So does targeting happen before the spell, or is it a coherent part of the spell? There isn't any action involved when it happens (so I guess it's a free action), so there aren't really existing rules to slot it in. Also, I pity the enemy that tries to use mindsight on me. 

[VennDygrem]

So does targeting happen before the spell, or is it a coherent part of the spell? There isn't any action involved when it happens (so I guess it's a free action), so there aren't really existing rules to slot it in. Also, I pity the enemy that tries to use mindsight on me. 

Guess I'm glad I didn't take mindsight, then! I figured someone on the team would take it; with so many fiends, I can't be the only one with telepathy. I'm not sure whether it would affect me or not. Technically, I'm not "immune" to it outright. I'm treated as though I were an object. Since an object has no wisdom score, I imagine it can't take Wisdom drain. Actually, I think the thing that keeps me safe is that the ability says, "At 10 HD, even creatures normally immune to Wisdom drain still suffer from the Allip's Madness ability, but at a reduced effect.  The Wisdom drain from either use of the Madness ability is halved for such creatures."
Thus, where an Undead or Construct is normally immune, they are still creatures and thus are subject to the ability. A brick wall is not a creature, and is not subject to the ability. Though I am a creature, I am treated as an object and not a creature, and therefore I believe I would not be subject to the effect.

I'm feat-starved enough as it is, though.

[Jackinthegreen]

Speaking of, don't forget Greater Wounding. You can snag an Amulet of Natural Weapons (either as a necklace or ioun stone) to double up Spells with Enhancements on your Slam. GW is out of the 3.0-to-3.5 Update Booklet, +4 cost & 2 Con damage per hit.

Infernal?  Multi-headed hell hound?

Or fiendish tyrannosaurus warlock shooting lasers Eldritch Blasts everywhere?

Needs Half-Golem and a ninja suit and you're set

I was just going off the T-rex laser stuff like at http://www.adamtglass.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/230977_10150202293787801_580537800_7021375_4336907_n.jpg.  What's with the ninja outfit?

And Mindsight really ought to have a way to exclude allies, or the Allip's madness stuff ought to have something to allow allies to not trigger it.  Alternately, would it be possible to argue that since Mindsight is not specifically targeted or even cast that it wouldn't cause the Wis drain?

[VennDygrem]

The second argument then means that enemies also aren't affected. Not really a problem since it makes things less complicated, though it also opens up the DM to give Mindsight to all of his telepathic baddies.

Generally speaking, anything the players can do is fair game for the DM.

As for giving the madness ability a way to not affect allies, that seems to work against the concept a bit.

[SorO_Lost]

What's with the ninja outfit?

Ninja robot dinosaurs of course.

(click to show/hide)

Ok, maybe it's robot dinosaurs being rode by ninjas. So the costume is for your familiar?

[Jackinthegreen]

Arcane heirophant to get a t-rex companion familiar?

[SorO_Lost]

Arcane heirophant to get a t-rex companion familiar?

Heh, but I thought you wanted to be the T-Rex?

Might I suggest T-Rex 6 (or less for half fiend) / (divine crusader or ur priest) 1 / Warblade 1 / (cleric if dc or half-fiend) 1 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 / Contemplative 1?
You'll have a very narrow niche of 9th level Spells for w/e, but more importantly for your theme you can pick up Homebrew Maneuvers which trend towards OP.

(click to show/hide)

For instance, I'm using Divine Flame in another one of his games so you could do something like
Immediate Action: Artificial Sun Core (access peta flare)
Free Action: Divine Impetus
Swift Action: Self Tokama (+6d6 to next atomic attack)
Standard Action: Giga Flare
Damage: 1d20 +23 ranks, +2 circumstance (tool), +30 competence (custom item), +4 (low int mod), +6d6, +50%, x3.
Aka, a 150ft wide and 600ft long cylinder deals 407.25 Energy/Bludgeoning unhealable damage on average (reflex halves) if you can get an ok on the custom item. You also get a infinitely usable pew-pew when Recovering Maneuvers, with Rapid Shot & GWTF it's 16d6 as a Full-Attack.

Just tossing ideas, ignore if you like.

[Nanshork]

Don't forget, you have to have a fiendish class.

[SorO_Lost]

Yeah Jack, don't forget it unlike some people right? 

Attempted to build part of my character today and I feel like a mad scientist trying to prove how powerful lv20 is.
@Ols, can I build a custom legacy item?

[Jackinthegreen]

Arcane heirophant to get a t-rex companion familiar?

Heh, but I thought you wanted to be the T-Rex?

Might I suggest T-Rex 6 (or less for half fiend) / (divine crusader or ur priest) 1 / Warblade 1 / (cleric if dc or half-fiend) 1 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 / Contemplative 1?
You'll have a very narrow niche of 9th level Spells for w/e, but more importantly for your theme you can pick up Homebrew Maneuvers which trend towards OP.

(click to show/hide)

For instance, I'm using Divine Flame in another one of his games so you could do something like
Immediate Action: Artificial Sun Core (access peta flare)
Free Action: Divine Impetus
Swift Action: Self Tokama (+6d6 to next atomic attack)
Standard Action: Giga Flare
Damage: 1d20 +23 ranks, +2 circumstance (tool), +30 competence (custom item), +4 (low int mod), +6d6, +50%, x3.
Aka, a 150ft wide and 600ft long cylinder deals 407.25 Energy/Bludgeoning unhealable damage on average (reflex halves) if you can get an ok on the custom item. You also get a infinitely usable pew-pew when Recovering Maneuvers, with Rapid Shot & GWTF it's 16d6 as a Full-Attack.

Just tossing ideas, ignore if you like.

You mentioned riding the T-rex and a familiar so that's where my mind went.