Psion (Kineticist) updated post - please comment on this build

[Kyrae]

Hi,

I am editing this post to reflect the fact I have done some preliminary work on a build for a Psion (Looking straight Psion 20, or possibly Psion into Slayer with my DM's agreement. If going into Slayer, assume entry no earlier than Level 8 as I will not be able to dip Ranger etc)

The character I have in mind is quite a martial Psion - developed his skills as part of a nation's military guard, with a focus on Blasting and BFC. I have decided on the Kineticist discipline. If I go into Slayer, it is mainly for the BAB and HD and armor, so I am not focusing on gish.

Book-wise, I am limited to PHB, XPH, SRD.
Party-wise, there are many players, but not everybody can attend every session and as such some flexibility to meet party needs may be in order. The DM will take into account varying party balance session to session in the encounters he draws up. The game is generally low-op, so whilst I want consistent damage and bfc, I do want it balanced with defensive abilities rather than going OTT on damage in a way that will outshine other party members.

Party members include:
Dwarven Rogue, Human Monk, Elven Druid, Elven Wizard, Elven Cleric (Sun/Fire Domains)
Although the Wizard and Druid were first time players and I think for session 2 they will be going with a simpler class, probably Barbarian or similar.

I would appreciate some help in selecting and ordering feats, and commenting on my power selection.

Human Psion (Kineticist) 2

Str 13, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 14

Feats:
H -          Overchannel
1 -          EK: Astral Contruct
Psion1 -  Psicrystal Affinity
3 -          Psicrystal Containment
Psion5 -  Psionic Meditation
6 -          Extend Power (Or Track)
9 -          Extend Power (Or Empower Power)
Psion 10 -?
12           - ?
Psion 15  -?
18           - ?

Powers
1 - Crystal Shard or Energy Ray, Entangling Ectoplasm, Inertial Armor, Matter Agitation, Vigor, (EK: Astral Construct)
2 - (Kin.) Control Air, (Kin.) Energy Missile, Ego Whip, Share Pain
3 - Dispel Psionics, Energy Wall, Solicit Psicrystal, Time Hop
4 - (Lvl 3 - Touchsight), Freedom of Movement, Psychic Reformation, Telekinetic Maneuver
5 -  (Kin.) Energy Current, Major Creation, ?
6 - Disintegrate, (Kin.) Null Psionics Field, Temporal Acceleration
7 - (Lvl 6 - Retrieve), Energy Conversion, Mind Blank
8 - Bend Reality, True Metabolism, (Kin.) Telekinetic Sphere
9 - Affinity Field, (Kin.)Tornado Blast, ? ? ? ?

Combat strategies:
Would appreciate advice!  but some basic combinations will include:
Solicit Psicrystal + Telekinetic Maneuver
Solitic Psicrystal + Energy Current
Energy Wall + Energy Conversion
BFC via Entangling Ectoplasm, Time Hop, augmented Control Air.
Share Pain + Vigor + Psicrystal for a decent buff
??? to increase AC/Miss Chance - worth grabbing an EK for Greater Concealing Amorpha in addition to the Vigor combo, or not in your opinion?

I would really appreciate help with feat selection!  And some advice with power selection is welcome too. I have read the Psion Handbook, but advice to tailor and optimise the build towards the aims of Blast+BFC is very welcome.

I hope this more proactive post draws some opinions. Thank you for reading.

J

[Vorpal_Bunny]

Some issues:

ExpK requires manifester level 3rd, so you can't take it at 1st level. Perhaps consider Talented instead (to let you Overchannel without damaging yourself).

Some thoughts:
 
Consider going into Anarchic Initiate for levels 6-8 (or higher if you ditch slayer), as you'll get a lot of benefit from Chaotic Surge as a blaster, and you'd eventually be able to retrain Overchannel (and Talented) once you get Wild Surge +1 (3rd Anarchic Initiate level).

Don't forget that Telekinetic Thrust can be really wicked for direct damage (assuming you can throw around a bunch of greatswords or something (Link power Psionic Fabricate from a previous round?)

Speaking of Link Power, you want that, a lot.

I'd probably say that Greater Concealing Amorpha would be worth an ExpK, as it will help VS things...Touch of Idiocy/Ray of Stupidity/Other Nasty non-hp damage attacks...which the SP+V+PsyC combo doesn't.

Hope this helps

VB

[phaedrusxy]

You can take Hidden Talent at 1st to pick up Astral Construct, though (assuming it is allowed, it is for "high psionics campaigns").

As a psion blaster, your main problem will be running out of power points (unless you only fight 1-2 fights per day, etc). So I'd look at ways to conserve PPs while still being effective. Astral Construct is a good one. Using Energy Conversion + Wall of Energy (to "charge it up") is another good "trick" for conserving PPs at higher levels (especially if you share it with your psicrystal...).

Metapsi feats can also help you do more damage, which is another way of conserving power points (Split Psionic Ray, etc).

[Vorpal_Bunny]

I forgot about Hidden Talent, good call Phaedrusxy

VB

[Kyrae]

Thank you for the tips.

Unfortunately, XPH/SRD only - so no Anarchic Initiate (I know, it would have been perfect) and no Linked Power.

However, Hidden Talent is from XPH So I am in luck for a Level 1 Astral Construct.

My next quandry is whether or not to include Overchannel & Talented, just Overchannel (using Vigor to offset), or neither.

Having both certainly delays the metapsionics by quite a degree. Having neither looks a bit more balanced, considering we are playing from Level 2 and may be at lower levels for quite some time, am playing with low op players, and don't want to have to wait forever for metapsi and concealing amorpha to come online.

With Overchannel&Talented:
h - hidden talent (astral construct)
1 - Psicrystal Affinity
p1 - Overchannel
3 - Talented
p5 - Psionic Meditation
6 - Psicrystal Containment
9 - Extend Power
p10 - Empower Power
12 - Expanded Knowledge: Greater Concealing Amorpha

Without Overchannel and Talented

h - Hidden Talent (Astral Construct)
1 - Psicrystal Affinity
p1 - Psicrystal Containment
3 - Extend Power
p5 - Psionic Meditation
6 - Expanded Knowledge: Greater Concealing Amorpha
9 - Empower Power
p10 - Split Psionic Ray or Chain Power (Chained Energy Ray at high levels I imagine as looking very flashy indeed)
12

I would also like to get Craft Dorje, or Craft Universal Item in there too. Dorje of Energy Missile would be awesome, and some of the Psychoactive skins look appealing. Perhaps this is something for Psychic Reformation?

[Kyrae]

Brief build snub.

Human Kineticist - Str 13, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 14  (Beginning at level 2, ability score bonuses from levelling will go in Int and maybe one into Dex to help with touch attacks)

Feats-
H   Hidden Talent: Astral Construct
1   Psicrystal Affinity
1p   Extend Power
3   Empower Power
5p   Psionic Meditation
6   Psicrystal Containment
9   EK: Greater Concealing Amorpha (may swap 6 and 9 around)

Powers-

1 - Astral Construct, Energy Ray, Entangling Ectoplasm, Inertial Armor, Matter Agitation, Vigor
2 - Control Air, Energy Missile, Ego Whip, Share Pain
3 - Dispel Psionics, Energy Wall, Solicit Psicrystal, Time Hop
4 - Touchsight(lvl3), Freedom of Movement, Intellect Fortress, Telekinetic Maneuver, -Psychic Reformation-

Think this will do for the first few months of campaign. Would also like Craft Dorje/Craft Universal Item, and more metapsionics. May need to use Psychic Reformation for this stuff.

Look okay?

[sambojin]

If you can fit it in, Grease, psionic and Control Light are two great battlefield control spells, to defend yourself and to help your party. One's a reflex save coup de grace enabler/sneak attack enabler/pseudo mini-wall (your DM will rarely run creatures through a grease patch), the other is an infinitely adaptable light/dark controller for defense/hiding, killing or running ("Enemy doesn't have darkvision? Then this encounter is now won for 1PP. I own the dimmer switch here"). I know it doesn't fit into the blaster theme, but they're very party friendly spells, and one use can save plenty of PP for more blasting later.

Telempathic Projection is also amazing. It doesn't really look like your party has a "face" character. You are now it. Attitude column shifts are great, and if you do have a face, their job just got a lot easier. Hostile->unfriendly (or any column shift) for 1PP is great, adds another dimension to your character and is all round fantastic for anything that can't be blown up (yet). It gives your whole party (or anyone you nominate, so you can be a third party negotiator) a bonus to any further interactions with the target "creature" for the next minute/level as well, which lets a face-rogue or you to work more horrible RP magic on them with a +4 bonus while doing it. No stipulations, just that you *can* have it, or *others'* can have it, +4 talky. Retry for 1PP as you want, to DM's approval more-or-less. Your DM will hate you more, RAW makes it broken, maybe you have to see or know *others'* on RAI, but it's a busted power. It does say the column shift is just for you, but the +4 is for anyone you want it for during the spell duration is double+ good. It's a love spell (well, charm), but it works on anything (1 creature). Better they like you and you just make them like whoever you want them to than anything else. I know you're not dipping, but a dip into an 8 skill point class for a +bluff/diplo dump could make you face for the party. Or let a "whatever" like you, and then let your face go to work.

Ps. Control Light is probably even more busted. Even if all the 10' cubes have to join up. It's a 1 standard action hide and maybe ranged sneak attack to any Rogue, a light scout or blindness(full darkness)/shadow/vision to anybody without darkvision, at your own discretion. Possibly the most powerful power or spell ever made. Place your 10' cubes of F'you, destroy encounter, for 1PP. It's like 4th ed gone even more wrong.

Good job on the Energy Ray choice instead of Crystal Shards. Far more versatile. Just remember to sonic shatter the things. All the things. It's a freakishly good Sunder for anything. Chains, weapons, iron bars, anything. Power it up with PP as necessary and watch things break. Electricity is nice for blasting as well. But cheap PP Sunder is where it's at.

[sambojin]

*Dumb things to do with above suggestions*

Do bad things in the Underdark or to light-sensitive races. Especially in conjunction with any other caster. Naughty, bottom hurty things.

Shatter weapons just before your BSF loots them. Or armour. Eventually you'll be able to sonic shatter anything you want. Be a bastard about it.

Get a king/general/lord Telempathic Projection'd. Nominate *every single one of their enemies, as well as their scullery maids and servants* as having a +4 talky bonus against them. Walk away from negotiations. Laugh for 1 min/lvl during negotiations.

Grease the simple things. The stupid things. Doorknobs, religious symbols, that bit of floor near the bar door and/or serving counter. You know, whatever.

Make people without darkvision that go to sleep wake up blind. Then really awake with heaps of light. Then blind again. You have to meditate anyway. You just do it with a strobe light going sometimes.

Telempathic Projection'ize your own party members. Anyone with a bad will save. Nominate every other party member, as well as shopkeepers/enemies/whatever as +4 targets. They will never annoy you again in non-combat time. Or in combat time.

[Kyrae]

Some awesome suggestions, thank you. I really did want some more BFC in the build, so now it looks like

1 - Astral Construct, Energy Ray, Grease(Psionic), Inertial Armor, Matter Agitation, Vigor
2 - Control Light, Energy Missile, Ego Whip, Share Pain

Only last point to decide is whether to go with Matter Agitation or Telempathic Projection.

Telempathic Projection does indeed seem useful, and as Psion, it would make sense for me to have at least one Jedi mind trick.

Matter Agitation can be used to start FIRES, and is cheap.

Hmm!

Great stuff though, thank you.

[sambojin]

Simply because I think psionics are awesome (a very powerful magic type, but possibly a little less broken then the auto-scale vancian type. Possibly) I'll add a few extra thoughts on powers.

Control Light is your friend. It is an amazing power. Get it, don't look back.

Energy Missile:
--------------
Let's be serious. This is why anyone becomes a Kineticist. +1PP for +1d6 on 5 targets damage and +1DC. This thing scales all game. Often better than an Energy Ball on targeting. Just remember that it says creatures or items. If there's one target, target her, her armour, her weapon, her shield, her underpants. If they're tough underpants, do it sonically.

Lvl 2 Kineticist knock+. Sonic the lock, the door, the door frame, the bit of wall holding the door and the door hinges. Something's got to give. Do it again if necessary.

Energy Wall:
------------
Is there anything this power can't do? It's concentration, so it can potentially last forever. It's opaque, so it blocks Los. It is the all singing, all damaging, versatility that any psion needs.

You realistically need to make up your own templates for all the various uses of this power. No minimum size, just maximums and effects based off what you put down. Directional bursts. A small inward facing ring does extend outside itself. There's nothing saying you can't make a 3' and a 3'1" ring wall on the same intersection. Facing in or out. Your psi crystal can concentrate on your area denial thingo while you do other stuff (Solicit Crystal). It's great.

Hell, argue for sonic "actually" hitting all items in effect range, even if they get saves. Link it with any lockdown or BC and that enemy just got half their cool things broken. Same for fire/cold depending on how your DM sees scrolls/potions/books/flammables. Say "oopsy!" every time you wipe out 10k worth of loot.

One square sonic door breaker wall? Fine. Concentrate. For the next rounds/level, that entire room is getting shattered as well. Any door, eventually, with concentration. As well as the room beyond, everything in it, without concentration. 20' from a wall on one side is 20' from it. That's a directional burst to my mind.

DM got a thing for jail cells? Sonic that stuff out of there.

You don't have enough battlefield control? Minimum 100' LoS blocker with damage does it. The DM either walks them through (damage), around (BC) or away (BC). Can make circles if lines aren't your style.

Yeah, 100' at minimum level. Can start 100' away from you. It's a light and cheap AoE lightning bolt that hangs around. Fire down that corridor, even if it's not one square wide. Hit everything that doesn't save. Can do silly things with templates. Gotta catch 'em all (in the 2d6 + zone). Slow lightning, but reliable.

See that guard house, portcullis and group of guards that won't let you in? You could just slowly sonically shatter them and all their stuff. But you could do it to 100' of town wall/city wall/palisade too. You can surround houses or towers with this. You are a goddamn siege engine now.

*more to come*

[Kyrae]

I am eagerly learning 

My character is meant to be a military strategist of sorts, so all of this knowledge helps massively. Thank you.

Looking at Energy Wall and Energy Conversion, one could manifest both, concentrate on the Energy Wall (occupying same space at manifester) and theoretically store a nigh-infinite amount of energy to then fire out at MLx3 per round, every round, for the duration of Energy Conversion.

Very tempting to use as a power-up before going into a known battle.

[sambojin]

That's quite ingenious. By the time you can cast Energy Conversion, it's not amazing, but 39 ray damage per round within 55 feet isn't bad.

You could amp it up another level by having Energy Conversion also affect your psi-crystal and you can be a mini twin-ray turret as long as it's near you. I'd let it sit on my pants, in a specially constructed pouch near my groinal region. Since psicrystals do "maybe" get feats (they get HD, so that's feat worthy), you could build it up around this idea (ray caster feats). Double the infinite rays of death. Solicit Psicrystal so it's the one concentrating on the Energy Wall during the charge-up if you have better things to do during that time.

Nice little defensive blaster idea really. Charge up (10mins would do it, 100 rounds worth. 100x 2d6+13 damage stored, so around 2000 damage of rays, x2, because your psicrystal gets it as well. You'll never get hurt by the wall itself, nor will your psicrystal), find something blastable within 120mins, blast it. Again, and I know I say this alot, but sonic is your friend here. 2x39 points of sonic damage breaks or kills most things, but this won't have the -1 per damage die downsides (except during charging. But 1800 vs 2000 points of damage stored is kind of irrelevant).  Yes, it can go over 9000! It's very DBZ.


On astral construct, remember that they did faq it so you can only have one at a time. But your DM might not read faqs or respect them if they do (constructs are good, especially extra attribute ones, but they're not "that good" that they needed a nerf).


Time hop is nice to set up battlefield conditions. You can blow plenty of PP putting up twin energy walls, buffing things, etc while an enemy is time hopped. Or you can throw down some caltrops, some ball bearings, a Grease patch and let your BSF/rogue deal with them when they pop out. Put down some flaming oil for good measure.

It is nice to save party members or yourself as well. If they've rushed in foolishly, energy wall the area and time hop them while damage occurs. Those monsters will hopefully move on by then. Or your party will have dealt with them.


Energy Adaption, Specific is also pretty good at giving your BSF an easy time of things in conjunction with energy walls or flaming oil. Simple damage ticks, where you can make the area "problematic" to be in, but not for them.

[Captnq]

Did you check out the psinomicon? I think my handbook om Astral Constructs and PsiCrystals as well as Metapsionics is fairly detailed.

My Sig, EVD/Psionomicon/read most everything in there.

[Azrael]

Good job on the Energy Ray choice instead of Crystal Shards. Far more versatile. Just remember to sonic shatter the things. All the things. It's a freakishly good Sunder for anything. Chains, weapons, iron bars, anything. Power it up with PP as necessary and watch things break. Electricity is nice for blasting as well. But cheap PP Sunder is where it's at.

Completely disagree with this 100%.   

With energy Ray you really aren't doing anything you cannot accomplish with other energy powers and they all scale similarly so there's very little point in having this power. Crystal shard however, is one of the few powers/spells in the game that can hit things in AMFs, has no save, no SR and bypasses pretty much every kind of DR (because let's be honest, who even has piercing DR, and when they do it's rarely over 10, which, when you're doing xd6 damage is rarely a concern).

Also, considering you're wanting to be a bit of a fighter and you also happen to be a kineticist, why not take control body? You can solicit it to your psi crystal and turn yourself into fighting machine and still be able to manifest powers, or if you need be defensive, ready an action to disrupt loe, or port away from an attack (which is why ectoplasmic wall can be handy). It's really good for breaking the action economy, and when combined with schism and a quickened power you can get a full attack, and theoretically manifest 3 powers all in one round.     

Another thing you might want to consider is control object, just carry around a few empty suits of adamanine chain mail and you can turn these suits into puppets that fight for you all for a measly 1 PP. This is one of the best options for still being relevant in a fight without using a ton of PP.

[Captnq]

Actually, might want to wait on checking the handbook.

1) Since working on the Erudite HB, I noticed some glaring holes in the Astral Construct handbook.
(BTW, there are feats you can take to allow you to manifest multiple ACs) I got to redo the whole thing.

BTW, are there any feats that help you when you are casting "creation" spells/powers? Alas, the Astral Construct is not summoned, therefore nothing that applies to boosting summoned critters applies to the AC. I was wondering if there was anything that applied to created creatures instead?

[Kyrae]

I also just purchased Complete Psionic from ebay, so I'll assume that Anarchic Initiate, Link Power and a couple of the new powers are available to me now.

I am hoping that in time I can talk my DM into allowing me to 'Research' Schism and Gt. Concealing Amorpha, then take Overchannel as a feat and head into Anarchic Initiate for a couple of levels. It's a pretty low op group really, a lot of first time players, so anything I do could easily be perceived as OP. I'll just try to be a team player rather than a hog-the-glory player and it should be fine, but my DM is already a little wary with me being the most 'minmax' player at the table with a Tier 2 class.

A couple of sessions into the campaign, currently at Level 2, and he seems to be doing okay. Looking to acquire Acid Flasks, Tanglefoot Bags, Caltrops, Marbles, as many BFC tricks as possible, really.

[sambojin]

@Azrael. Energy Ray does allow power/magic resistance against it, but it gets around most things DR-wise, can sometimes give you bonus damage to energy-types that creatures are weak to, can do more damage than shards (+1 per die for fire and ice), hits high natural armour + armoured things better (lightning) and can smash stuff. Crystal shards wins in the PR/MR department, but Energy Ray is better for everything else. It's also nice for when your DM rules that energy missile CAN'T in fact auto-target 5 things and makes you ray attack them instead. It's a tool-power, that does get outclassed by other energy powers, but it's still useful. Sometimes it's good for RP style stuff where a big show of force isn't a good thing, whereas Crystal Shards "just" does damage, and has no tool functionality at all, only anti-MR (which is admittedly rather big as a feature of any power in later levels).

Early on, Energy Ray is the winner. At lvl 10+ Crystal Shards may be better, but you probably won't be using it in battle much anyway by then.

[sambojin]

Oh, and just wondering, how did your DM end up playing Control Light? Does he make you join up the cubes? Is 0% light around a target considered virtual blindness to non-darkvision creatures? Can you make stealth corridors for a rogue (or escape routes for yourself)?

Or Telempathic Projection'ing someone? Just how far does that +4 bonus go by his book? I'd suggest to just keep it to your own party members/allies.

Can't wait to hear how he plays it when you ding lvl 3 and start energy missile'ing doors and weaponry/equipment with sonic.

Then tell us how the whole "siege engine" aspect plays out with energy wall at lvl 5. Or the auto-lock-pick and room clearing. Might not be the group to start doing that sort of stuff in..... 

[Endarire]

You need Wild Talent for astral construct @L1 - not Expanded Knowledge.

[Kyrae]

Oh, and just wondering, how did your DM end up playing Control Light? Does he make you join up the cubes? Is 0% light around a target considered virtual blindness to non-darkvision creatures? Can you make stealth corridors for a rogue (or escape routes for yourself)?

Or Telempathic Projection'ing someone? Just how far does that +4 bonus go by his book? I'd suggest to just keep it to your own party members/allies.

Can't wait to hear how he plays it when you ding lvl 3 and start energy missile'ing doors and weaponry/equipment with sonic.

Then tell us how the whole "siege engine" aspect plays out with energy wall at lvl 5. Or the auto-lock-pick and room clearing. Might not be the group to start doing that sort of stuff in..... 

Control Light is next level for me (filled up on level 1 powers for no), and Telempathic Projection is something I'll perhaps try to get via "Research", alongside Dimension Hop and Entangling Ectoplasm.

So, I can't comment yet. I'm a Human without Darkvision though, so it will be for my less-Human party members' benefit in melee, or other tactical uses, I'd imagine.

May even hold off until Level 4 before selecting Energy Missile - I really must emphasize this is a low op group, a lot of player's first or second time playing D&D, doing 15d6 total damage with a power at Level 3 might bring "balance" to the DM's mind again (he is already a touch wary of my optimization ability in comparison to other players.

Great discussion, thank you. I'll keep updated.. next session is on Sunday.