No spellcasters, and we're all going insane...

[Tonymitsu]

So my buddy wants to start a new campaign with some very... interesting restrictions.

Rule #1: No primary spellcasters- In his words, any class that gets 9th level spells or manifesting is banned.
Corollary #1: I asked him about classes that draw from limited spell lists, like beguiler or war mage. He said they were "fine".

Rule #2: No planar travel. Anything that gets any form of planar travel is banned (teleport, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etc.)
Corollary #2: Classes that conditionally get such spells  and effects are allowed provided you do not use those effects (i.e.: Rangers are fine, just don't prepare Tree Stride, and Meldshapers are fine, don't shape Blink Shirt)

Rule #3: No non-humanoid races, and any non-humans will frequently be greeted with suspicion and prejudice.

Rule #4: He is using the sanity rules, as detailed here.
EDIT: Specifically here is what he has said so far:
-All spells that can cause negative sanity will do so. All spells that heal or interact positively with sanity are in EXCEPT Mind Blank. That spell still exists but has no effect.
-Drugs exist
-We are using the moderate spellcasting table, but may adjust downward if it becomes too detrimental.
-Full psionic/magic transparency. Manifesting has the same effect on sanity as spellcasting.

We are starting at level 5.

My first thought was Binder 15/KotSS 5, but the vestige I wanted for my patron (Chupoclops) is out, as is Zceryll and Astaroth, and he kept making jokes about driving party members insane using class features.

  What would you play under those rules?

[Keldar]

Anything with easy access to Greater Restoration.  Like a Healer, except they get Gate eventually, so are banned under 2.  And spellcasting apparently kills your sanity.  Because that's reasonable.  So definitely something with the Restoration line.

[bhu]

Okay, looking at your options the following spells heal sanity: Heal, Miracle, Limited Wish, Wish, and any of the 3 restoration spells.  Your only option for Heal is a high level Runescarred Berserker.  Miracle, wish and limited wish are obviously off limits.  Your options for Lesser restoration are Champion of Gwynharwyf, Paladin, Knight of the Weave, Death Delver, Soldier of Light, Hunter of the Dead, Beloved of Valarian.  None of them are full casters, but you'd have to check for spells forbidden under rule 2.  Your options for Restoration are Champion of Gwynharwyf, Paladin, Knight of the Weave, Death Delver, Soldier of Light, Hunter of the Dead, Beloved of Valarian and Runescarred Berserker.  Greater Restoration is off limits. 

Mind Blank renders you immune to san loss for its duration.  Your only option for it is Beguiler.  Calm Emotions temporarily lets you ignore the effects of san loss.  For it you'll need Bard, Savant, Celebrant of Sharess, Emissary of Barachiel.

Your best bet looks like a Bard, Beguiler, a Paladin, and a Barbarian who quickly Prestiges out.  Virtually all of the PrC's above key off those classes (well they work with more, but these are the ones you are allowed).  Without this your only options are alchemy (if the DM allows it), the Heal skill, or the optional Knowledge: Mental Therapy skill. 

Your starting sanity is Wisdomx5, so go for anything buffing that stat.

I'd also peek at Incarnum and psionics to see if theres anything that would mimic the effect of those spells.  Also look through the vestiges.

[Keldar]

Psychic Warrior has Mind Blank, Personal as a 6th level power.  But again, #2 is phrased in an insanely limiting fashion.  Like it bars Monk.  Monk!

... There was some PrC that gave perpetual Mind Blank, but I'm drawing a blank on it.

If available, Heir of Sybaris has Mark of Sentinel for 1/d Mind Blank.  Or lower level, Mark of Healing lesser Feat to give a hobbit 1/d Lesser Restoration. (Disguise as a child to get around asshole townsfolk.) 

[Tonymitsu]

...But again, #2 is phrased in an insanely limiting fashion.  Like it bars Monk.  Monk!

Ah ha... well, actually...
Monk was also out for the same reason out-of-the-box KotSS was:  You become an outsider.  And no non-humanoids. 






High level crusader is also an option for Heal, as the ninth level Devoted Spirit maneuver replicates that spell. Of course that only works in combat so that's a pretty situational effect.

I once played a build that was Crusader for tankyness, Incarnate for Vitality Belt and Therapeutic Mantle, Monk dip for Improved Trip, Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce.
He'd probably be okay with that monk dip since it's only for feats and explicitly isn't going for Abundant Step and Perfect Self.

Also some more info: Starting level is going to be 4 or 5, depending on what the group wants to do, but the DM would prefer 5.

The rest of the group (I hope your sitting down):
A Tinkerer, from the Warcraft RPG.
A Runemaster, also from the Warcraft RPG.
A Rogue, but likely prestiging into something else (wants to focus on being a skillmonkey)
An undecided, but likely going to be a Brewmaster... yet again from the Warcraft RPG.

He's also insisting I am free to go outside the Warcraft RPG and can be whatever I want, so long as I follow the above rules and clear it with him first.

EDIT: Also, he doesn't want to restrict access to magic items, other than we can't really make them ourselves. There will likely be magic marts, and most equipment we want is likely available (long as it follows the rules).

[skydragonknight]

Does Tree Stride (spell) rule out Rangers too? If it doesn't, a Mystic Ranger could get Heal from Holt Warden at ECL 9.

[Maat Mons]

Dread necromancer (Heroes of Horror, p84) can get a ghostly visage familiar at 7th level.  That thing protects its master as mind blank, except for the divination part.  The class does change your type to undead at 20th level though, so you'd need to get it modified somehow. 

The deformity (madness) feat (Elder Evils, p13) makes you immune to all mind-affecting effects.  The idea is you're already as crazy as you can be, but you're a high-functioning lunatic. 

[Tonymitsu]

Does Tree Stride (spell) rule out Rangers too? If it doesn't, a Mystic Ranger could get Heal from Holt Warden at ECL 9.

Assuming that Tree Stride is a Conjuration [Teleportation] effect that requires access to the astral plane to function, my instinct is no it's out.  But I can double check.

And I think we are trying to be a good-aligned party as well.


It's been a long time since I attempted a Paladin. And I've always wanted to try a build with the Battle Blessing feat.

Knight of the Weave gets both Dimension Door and Teleport as spells known.
Runescarred Berserker seems like I'd be stepping on the Runemaster's toes. I'd rather he be his special snowflake.
Both Soldier of Light and Hunter of the Dead have an extremely narrow focus, and feel kind of meh to me. And I refuse to play a chaste princess riding a unicorn.

I like fluff and spell list of Death Delver, but the class is really unfocused. Meh BAB, Meh hit die, and if that special requirement will actually have to be met during play... oy...
The only logical entry I can think of is Monk.

I kind of like Champion of Gwynharwyf.
Is there any synergy between CoG, and Totemist/Totem Rager?  Or would that be too MAD?

[skydragonknight]

Totemists get teleportation through Blink Shirt.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

#2 Lite ... would just say these abilities are Not available in this multiverse.

r.a.i. Ardent into Slayer PrC , would get a Mind-blank like effect , and could do a bit of DMother May I about having the Restoration line available and when.  Never hurts to empower the DM with more DM empowerment ... (wink).

... The deformity (madness) feat (Elder Evils, p13) makes you immune to all mind-affecting effects.  The idea is you're already as crazy as you can be, but you're a high-functioning lunatic.

You told them you'd never tell us ... Shhhhhh

[Tonymitsu]

How will Ardent/Slayer get access to Restoration? Are you suggesting just creating a mantle that has Psionic Restoration as a power known?

[phaedrusxy]

What level is this starting at (and going to, if you have an idea)?

Which version of sanity are you using? Some are pretty easy to bypass as a spellcaster, and others are hopelessly crippling.

[Tonymitsu]

What level is this starting at (and going to, if you have an idea)?

Which version of sanity are you using? Some are pretty easy to bypass as a spellcaster, and others are hopelessly crippling.

Level 5

And by version do you mean the Low, Moderate, or Extreme from the spellcasting table?
If yes, then I have no idea.

Otherwise I'm no sure what you mean by version.

[phaedrusxy]

That is the main variation, but if you read through it, there are a lot of other options the DM can tweak, as well.

[Tonymitsu]

Yeah I read through it but I didn't realize how many possible options there were.

No idea what he's planning on using.

[Keldar]

Based on the comment about class features driving people insane, I'd wager on the worst options.

[Tonymitsu]

Got some more info on specific rules from him, and updated the first post accordingly.

With the Moderate table, I'm thinking any spellcaster/manifester will have to be Wisdom based so my brain doesn't start leaking out of my ears after the first few sessions.

He's totally fine with Dominant Ideal, and is on board Substitute Power, especially for the purpose of swapping out mantle powers that aren't allowed with things that are. But since Mind Blank is out I'll have to build for something besides Slayer.

[Keldar]

With no Mind Blank use, and no write up for Psionics with Sanity recovery, I'd stick with a Divine caster.

[phaedrusxy]

With no Mind Blank use, and no write up for Psionics with Sanity recovery, I'd stick with a Divine caster.

Hmm... maybe a Mystic Wild-shape ranger?

[Keldar]

With no Mind Blank use, and no write up for Psionics with Sanity recovery, I'd stick with a Divine caster.

Hmm... maybe a Mystic Wild-shape ranger?

Needs more Restorationy.