No spellcasters, and we're all going insane...

[phaedrusxy]

With no Mind Blank use, and no write up for Psionics with Sanity recovery, I'd stick with a Divine caster.

Hmm... maybe a Mystic Wild-shape ranger?

Needs more Restorationy.

Heads into Prestige Paladin? Shouldn't wands be able to cover that really, though?

Edit: Whoops. PrPal requires Turn Undead. Not easy to get, given the restrictions in this game.

[Tonymitsu]

What about Ardent/Sanctified Mind, taking the Life Mantle as a Dominant Ideal? That would get me Psionic Restoration at level 11.

[skydragonknight]

Weren't Ardents disqualified under Rule 1 as Full Manifesters?
Edit: I guess they're a limited list user? Gah these restrictions confuse me.

[Tonymitsu]

Yeah, Ardent is fine because of the limited list from mantles, and Substitute Power swapping out disallowed abilities for acceptable ones.

Right now I'm looking at this Ardent 14/Sanctified Mind 6
with the Life, Creation, and Freedom mantles, with Creation as the DI.
Neutral Good Kalashtar
STR: 14, DEX: 12, CON: 14, INT: 12, WIS: 16, CHA: 10

[Tonymitsu]

Ok so far I'm looking at this for my updated mantles:

(click to show/hide)

Creation Mantle - Dominant Ideal

1. Astra Construct
1. Psionic Minor Creation
2. Psionic Repair Damage
3. Ectoplasmic Cocoon
4. Psionic Fabricate
5. Psionic Major Creation
6. Greater Psionic Fabricate
7. Mass Ectoplasmic Cocoon
9. True Creation

Guardian

1. Thicken Skin
1. Vigor
2. Damp Power
2. Share Pain
3. Dispel Psionics
4. Wall of Ectoplasm
5. Protection from Psionics
6. Mind over Energy
8. Psionic Iron Body

(click to show/hide)

Life Mantle

1. Touch of Health
2. From the Brink
2. Stygian Erasure
3. Body Purification
4. Stygian Ward
5. Psionic Revivify
6. Mend Wounds
6. Psionic Restoration
6. Stygian Disruption
8. True Metabolism


Freedom Mantle (because of the restrictions, I am required to sub out all of the [Teleportation] powers, so I figure I'll ask for some decent replacements)

1. Synchronicity
2. Hustle
3. Sense Danger
4. Psionic Fly
4. Schism
5. Psionic Freedom of Movement
6. Psionic Overland Flight
7. Evade Burst
8. Mass Time Hop

I'm planning on asking for the Otyugh Hole to qualify for Sanctified Mind.
So far for the character I'm at this:
Kalashtar
Ardent 1 - Creation Mantle, Guardian Mantle, Psicrystal Affinity
Ardent 2 - Life Mantle
Ardent 3 - Pisonic Meditation
Ardent 4
Ardent 5 - Freedom Mantle
Ardent 6 - Expanded Knowledge (Empathic Transfer)
Ardent 7
Ardent 8
Ardent 9 - Linked Power
Ardent 10 - Dominant Ideal
Ardent 11
Sanctified Mind 1 - Enlarge Power
Sanctified Mind 2
Sanctified Mind 3
Sanctified Mind 4 - Quicken Power
Sanctified Mind 5
Sanctified Mind 6
Ardent 12 - ???
Arden 13
Ardent 14

Thoughts?

[skydragonknight]

Minimum level on Psionic Meditation is 4 because of skill rank requirements.

I'm not sure if you're really getting value from Enlarge Power. Also Hustle + Psionic Meditation > Quicken Power.

Your round will look like this:
R1: Swift Action - Hustle w/Linked Power (expending focus)
      Hustle Move Action (regain focus)
      Standard Action - Linked Power (expend focus)
      Move Action - (regain focus)

For tactical movement, use a mount (Warbeast template I believe lowers Handle Animal checks) or a magical substitute like a Carpet of Flying. Move as a free action!

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Based on the comment about class features driving people insane, I'd wager on the worst options.

So much text in that variant...

So what are the worst options?

[Tonymitsu]

Based on the comment about class features driving people insane, I'd wager on the worst options.

So much text in that variant...

So what are the worst options?

Based on looking at the rules, you could have spellcasters who routinely piss their brains out of their ears simply for existing, and when you do inevitably go crazy you are, at best left on the street to die slowly, and at worst, thrown out of town to the wilderness to die horribly.

So is swapping Empathic Transfer and Psionic Meditation an option?
And I could always forget Enlarge and pick up another power with EK

[Keldar]

Based on the comment about class features driving people insane, I'd wager on the worst options.

So much text in that variant...

So what are the worst options?

Well you can't get dumber than Lesser Restoration curing 1d4 sanity but costing 2d6 sanity for extreme loss with an extra 5 for being divine.  Even with Moderate sanity loss for spells, Lesser Restoration requires yet another optional rule to prevent it from costing 4 each time you cast it... for the same 1d4 potential gain.  Yep, the rules are dumb enough that you could drive yourself insane trying to cure your insanity.   

Its a very messy system.

[linklord231]

Are you dead set on having Creation as your Dominant Ideal?  Freedom seems like a much better choice to me.  I'm also noticing a distinct lack of Boost Construct for someone taking DI: Creation. 

Also, I'd be inclined to take Freedom at level 3 instead of Life.  You get Hustle sooner, and the higher level Life powers are redundant with the lower ones.  You don't need both Touch of Health and Body Purification, for instance.  Really, all you need out of Life is Stygian Ward and Psionic Restoration.  One or two of the healing powers would be nice, but not necessary.  You can safely put this off til your 5th level Assume Mantle.

Remember that you don't automatically learn all the powers in your mantles.  I went through and made a possible power progression for you.

(click to show/hide)

The numbers after each level are the number of powers known from each mantle in the order (Creation,Guardian,Freedom,Life).  Remember that you have to pick powers such that you never have more powers from a secondary mantle than a primary mantle. 

1.  Astral Construct, Vigor (1,1)
2.  Psionic Minor Creation (2,1)
3.  Share Pain (2,2)
4.  Hustle (2,2,1)
5.  Body Purification (2,2,1,1)
6.  Sense Danger (2,2,2,1)
7.  Stygian Ward (2,2,2,2)
8.  Psionic Fabricate (3,2,2,2), Guardian becomes Secondary and Freedom becomes Primary
9.  Psionic Major Creation (4,2,2,2)
10. Psionic Freedom of Movement (4,2,2,3), Dominant Ideal:Freedom
11. Psionic Restoration (4,2,3,3)
12. Psionic Overland Flight (4,2,3,4)
13. Mass Ectoplasmic Cocoon (5,2,3,4)
14. Mend Wounds (5,2,4,4)
15. Mass Time Hop (5,2,4,5), pick another mantle
16. True Metabolism (5,2,5,5) or 8th level power from another mantle
17. Psionic True Creation (6,2,5,5)
18. ??
19. ??
20. ??

For your 15th level Mantle pick, I'd go with something that gives you either a neat Mantle ability like Fate, or access to really good high level powers like Deception or Death if your DM rules that you're immune to insanity while under Stygian Veil. 

[skydragonknight]

I'll second Dominant Ideal(Freedom). Dominant Ideal has amazing synergy with Hustle+Linked Power.

[Tonymitsu]

Nope, not dead set at all. Just Creation seemed like the best choice what with the cheap metapsionics.

Although after I submitting my changes to the DM I got back the following:
-He doesn't like Vigor in the Guardian Mantle, but is fine with it going in the Life Mantle.

...Anyway
-He apparently doesn't like any of the travel powers in the Freedom Mantle (except Hustle), and said no to Overland Flight. He also said no to Sense Danger, but seemed fine with Synchronicity and Mass Time Hop, and the Time Mantle in general.
-Schism is out. Of the game.

...Really, all you need out of Life is Stygian Ward and Psionic Restoration.  One or two of the healing powers would be nice, but not necessary.  You can safely put this off til your 5th level Assume Mantle.

I see your point about the Life Mantle, but if I end up having to stick Vigor in there I'll want that as well. Probably something I can work around.

So at the moment with the new changes I'm looking at:
Life

1. Touch of Health
1. Vigor
2. From the Brink
2. Stygian Erasure
3. Body Purification
4. Stygian Ward
5. Psionic Revivify
6. Mend Wounds
6. Psionic Restoration
8. True Metabolism

Since the only power left in the Guardian Mantle is Share Pain, which I can get with EK, I can skip that completely and pick up the Fate Mantle instead with:
1. Precognition, Defensive
1. Precognition, Offensive
2. Clairvoyant Sense
3. Fate Link
5. Second Chance
6. Precognition, Greater
7. Fate of One
8. Hypercognition
9. Metafaculty

Without Freedom to allow Linked Power/Hustle shenanigans, what is my best option?

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

I'm all for caster nerfs, but this doesn't seem that crippling of a system. Just persist calm emotions and be insane but do whatever you want.

It seems casters still pwn this variant just like everything else in 3.5

[linklord231]

Nope, not dead set at all. Just Creation seemed like the best choice what with the cheap metapsionics.

Although after I submitting my changes to the DM I got back the following:
-He doesn't like Vigor in the Guardian Mantle, but is fine with it going in the Life Mantle.

...Anyway
-He apparently doesn't like any of the travel powers in the Freedom Mantle (except Hustle), and said no to Overland Flight. He also said no to Sense Danger, but seemed fine with Synchronicity and Mass Time Hop, and the Time Mantle in general.
-Schism is out. Of the game.

...Really, all you need out of Life is Stygian Ward and Psionic Restoration.  One or two of the healing powers would be nice, but not necessary.  You can safely put this off til your 5th level Assume Mantle.

I see your point about the Life Mantle, but if I end up having to stick Vigor in there I'll want that as well. Probably something I can work around.

Without Freedom to allow Linked Power/Hustle shenanigans, what is my best option?

Action economy abuse via Hustle or Schism probably isn't your best bet anyway due to the whole insanity thing.  Unless you can convince your DM that a manifesting a first level power and using Linked Power to manifest a 9th level power next turn should only cost you sanity for the 1st level power 

If you're not going to take Freedom, I'd probably think hard about Time.  Bonus points if you can swap Deceleration and Sustenance for Synchronicity and Hustle. 

[bhu]

I'm all for caster nerfs, but this doesn't seem that crippling of a system. Just persist calm emotions and be insane but do whatever you want.

It seems casters still pwn this variant just like everything else in 3.5

Once you reach o san you get npc'd, so that presumes the pc's avoid that or death long enough to get a persistable spell.  Also persist would make calm emotions a level 6 spell.  Thats a pretty big hoop to jump.

[Jackinthegreen]

I'm all for caster nerfs, but this doesn't seem that crippling of a system. Just persist calm emotions and be insane but do whatever you want.

It seems casters still pwn this variant just like everything else in 3.5

Once you reach o san you get npc'd, so that presumes the pc's avoid that or death long enough to get a persistable spell.  Also persist would make calm emotions a level 6 spell.  Thats a pretty big hoop to jump.

Level 8 actually.  Calm Emotions is a 2nd level spell, and Persistent bumps it up 6 levels.  There's also the issue that it's a concentration spell so even if the duration was extended to be 24 hours the caster still has to concentrate during that time for it to work.  Seems like it's not going to work.

It also makes me want to rewrite the Axani from Dragon because it gets that as an SLA and for it to be kind of comparable to an Aasimar's Daylight it'd have to not require concentrating.

[skydragonknight]

Hire a Half-Elf Bard and pay them to use Soothing Voice every combat?

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

I'm all for caster nerfs, but this doesn't seem that crippling of a system. Just persist calm emotions and be insane but do whatever you want.

It seems casters still pwn this variant just like everything else in 3.5

Once you reach o san you get npc'd, so that presumes the pc's avoid that or death long enough to get a persistable spell.  Also persist would make calm emotions a level 6 spell.  Thats a pretty big hoop to jump.

Level 8 actually.  Calm Emotions is a 2nd level spell, and Persistent bumps it up 6 levels.  There's also the issue that it's a concentration spell so even if the duration was extended to be 24 hours the caster still has to concentrate during that time for it to work.  Seems like it's not going to work.

It also makes me want to rewrite the Axani from Dragon because it gets that as an SLA and for it to be kind of comparable to an Aasimar's Daylight it'd have to not require concentrating.

I'm all for caster nerfs, but this doesn't seem that crippling of a system. Just persist calm emotions and be insane but do whatever you want.

It seems casters still pwn this variant just like everything else in 3.5

Once you reach o san you get npc'd, so that presumes the pc's avoid that or death long enough to get a persistable spell.  Also persist would make calm emotions a level 6 spell.  Thats a pretty big hoop to jump.

Really guys?

DMM.

Sonorous hum. Swift concentration.

[skydragonknight]

Not a bad plan, but under his restrictions it's a pain in the ass to get Turn Undead.

[bhu]

Really guys?

DMM.

Sonorous hum. Swift concentration.

He needs to get Calm Emotions from a class that isnt a full caster.  The only one that qualifies is bard, which is arcane magic, not divine.  To get Calm Emotions as a divine spell his best (maybe only) option is to take levels in Emissary of Barachiel.