Author Topic: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'  (Read 183380 times)

Offline bhu

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #660 on: September 07, 2015, 02:39:19 AM »
At what point do you stop trying to tell a freind he's becoming increasingly unstable and simply inform the local authorities?

When you feel you need to ask that question. A little bit before, actually.

Even when said authorities won't do anything until he does something, and it will erode his trust enough in you that he wont tell you when he's planning something now?

Offline Amechra

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #661 on: September 07, 2015, 06:08:59 AM »
At what point do you stop trying to tell a freind he's becoming increasingly unstable and simply inform the local authorities?

When you feel you need to ask that question. A little bit before, actually.

Even when said authorities won't do anything until he does something, and it will erode his trust enough in you that he wont tell you when he's planning something now?

Hmm... I honestly don't know what to tell you.

I mean, it depends on whether he's becoming unstable in terms of being a threat to other people, or just to himself.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #662 on: September 07, 2015, 10:44:43 AM »
At what point do you stop trying to tell a freind he's becoming increasingly unstable and simply inform the local authorities?

When you feel you need to ask that question. A little bit before, actually.

Even when said authorities won't do anything until he does something, and it will erode his trust enough in you that he wont tell you when he's planning something now?

Clearly, the right thing to do in these cases is to bug his house.

Failing that, keep in contact with other people who interact with him/her on a daily basis if you can do so discreetly. Surely you're not his/her only friend; get enough of them together and you might be able to stage an intervention. Which is awful for everyone involved, but effective most of the time.

Keep in mind that there's a good chance you'll hurt your friend's feelings no matter how much you mean your friend well. And even if you prevent an awful moment, your friend might not realize that until much later, if at all. But it's still the right thing to do by your friend.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 10:49:07 AM by Kuroimaken »
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Offline brujon

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #663 on: September 07, 2015, 03:02:53 PM »
I wish i had a button to "turn off" feelings, but all i have is alcohol and numbness.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline dman11235

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #664 on: September 07, 2015, 03:42:52 PM »
At what point do you stop trying to tell a freind he's becoming increasingly unstable and simply inform the local authorities?

When you feel you need to ask that question. A little bit before, actually.

Even when said authorities won't do anything until he does something, and it will erode his trust enough in you that he wont tell you when he's planning something now?

At least let the authorities know that they're unstable if you feel they present a threat to themselves or others.
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Offline bhu

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #665 on: September 07, 2015, 05:15:49 PM »

Hmm... I honestly don't know what to tell you.

I mean, it depends on whether he's becoming unstable in terms of being a threat to other people, or just to himself.

Here's the deal: When Bush began his presidency he had a good job, he was married, life was good.  But he took all the anti-bush rhetoric at the time as anti-conservative, so for him people putting down Bush were personally insulting him and every other conservative as well, so he went from moderate to hyper partisan politically.  Then he subsequently lost both job and wife.  He cashed out all his life savings, life insurance and stocks/bonds to support himself while he looked for work, but after not having any luck he stopped looking, and began stockpiling guns, food and ammo for the coming apocalypse if Obama got elected.  He assumed the economy would crumble like cheese and we would fairly quickly become a post apocalyptic society of anarchists or be taken over by the communists.  When that didn't happen he assumed it would be if obama got a second term.  Then it would happen based on several supreme court decisions (he actually wept when they decided for obamacare).  Now it will be if anyone but Cruz wins office.  He's not looking for a job because since he sees a coming economic crash he doesn't think they'll be around much longer.  He isn't paying his property taxes because he doesnt have the money, and assumes with teh coming destruction he'll have his pick of houses to take and defend.  he no longer cleans his house, he's not looking for a job, he won't apply for aid because asking for government help is selling his soul to evil, and I think depression is beginning to consume him.   He's like one of those preachers who says the world is ending on day X, and then keeps pushing back the date when it doesn't occur.  He freaks out completely if you try discussing it, and my psych says I may have to wait for him to hit bottom before he'll look for help.  My worry is that rock bottom for him may be suicide, or trying to take out some feds in some misguided delusional attempt to 'defend america'.  So far he just appears depressed, but since he wont go to a psych (he cant admit he has a problem, and the psych would be paid for by the evil gummint), I can easily foresee an eventual future where he becomes much worse.

Offline brujon

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #666 on: September 07, 2015, 05:56:53 PM »
Let's just hope the government doesn't try to foreclose his cause on account of unpaid taxes, with all the crazy and guns, he just might snap and unload on them. He sounds like a serious, serious case of crazy, and guns and crazy definitely don't mix well together.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #667 on: September 07, 2015, 07:29:30 PM »
What about asking him to see a psych and claiming it's being paid by his friends rather than "the gummint"?
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Offline brujon

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #668 on: September 07, 2015, 07:40:57 PM »
Everyone is starting to think i'm alcoholic
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline bhu

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #669 on: September 07, 2015, 08:01:26 PM »
Everyone is starting to think i'm alcoholic

Prove them wrong and quit drinking. 

Offline bhu

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #670 on: September 07, 2015, 08:04:11 PM »
What about asking him to see a psych and claiming it's being paid by his friends rather than "the gummint"?

Because psychologists are 'part of the liberal conspiracy".  Also because admitting he has a problem is admitting weakness, and since he's embraced far right conservatism he's become a social darwinist.  He believes the weak deserve to perish.  He has a very hard time justifying his friendship with me to himself, even though Ive known him since high school.  Plus the rest of our circle of friends have similar issues, and they kind of cheer him on.  It;s why I posted earlier about gaming not being what it used to be.

Offline brujon

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #671 on: September 07, 2015, 08:18:12 PM »
Everyone is starting to think i'm alcoholic

Prove them wrong and quit drinking.

I'm just drowning my sorrows in alcohol, i don't drink everyday. Just about 3 days a week on average, and most of those days it's just a few beers. Yeah, i've been drinking heavily for the past week, but, it's going to go away. I had my liver tested, there's nothing wrong with it...

I know i should stop but i can't. I can't be thinking right now.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #672 on: September 07, 2015, 08:38:24 PM »
Everyone is starting to think i'm alcoholic

Prove them wrong and quit drinking.

I'm just drowning my sorrows in alcohol, i don't drink everyday. Just about 3 days a week on average, and most of those days it's just a few beers. Yeah, i've been drinking heavily for the past week, but, it's going to go away. I had my liver tested, there's nothing wrong with it...

I know i should stop but i can't. I can't be thinking right now.

There are better ways to stop thinking that don't include killing your brain cells. I also hate to say this, but... "I don't drink everyday" is kinda one of those things that people who are in denial about a certain problem say...

What about asking him to see a psych and claiming it's being paid by his friends rather than "the gummint"?

Because psychologists are 'part of the liberal conspiracy".  Also because admitting he has a problem is admitting weakness, and since he's embraced far right conservatism he's become a social darwinist.  He believes the weak deserve to perish.  He has a very hard time justifying his friendship with me to himself, even though Ive known him since high school.  Plus the rest of our circle of friends have similar issues, and they kind of cheer him on.  It;s why I posted earlier about gaming not being what it used to be.

Turn his logic around on him. Point out that by any standard of living he's at the bottom rung of the social darwinism ladder, or close to it.

Or, again, stage an intervention, because he seems pretty far gone.
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Offline bhu

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #673 on: September 07, 2015, 08:51:50 PM »

Turn his logic around on him. Point out that by any standard of living he's at the bottom rung of the social darwinism ladder, or close to it.

Or, again, stage an intervention, because he seems pretty far gone.

I worry he might start to think suicide is the right thing to do because he deserves it.  Interventions require people who care about you.  He doesn't have any.  Most of his family are numb, holier than thou, sociopaths incapable of empathy or emotion.  They don't live in the state and they've effectively disowned him since they consider him a failure.  The rest of his gaming friends are of a similar mindset as he is, with the exception of me.  They think he'll snap out of it because "he hasn't gone weak and turned to the government."  They think depression is just something he'll outgrow despite the fact that all of them are on massive doses of antidepressants themselves.  If I do this, the odds are I do it alone, and unless I time it right for a moment when he's willing to accept reality, I fear it will go sideways.

Offline Amechra

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #674 on: September 07, 2015, 10:12:05 PM »
I think there might not actually be anything you can do at this point. The point where you really could have helped him would have been a few years ago, probably.

brujon, if you have to say that kinda stuff, you are trying to justify something to yourself. The healthiest thing you can do is not drink and come to terms with your problems. If you need help or advice about dealing with them, go talk to someone you can trust about it.

Booze just holds off the problem; it doesn't solve it.


To share a little something from my life: my dad's an alcoholic. And he's steadily gotten worse over the course of my lifespan.

He was hospitalized once while I was in middle school due to hypertension; he's had a nervous shake since I was in my early teens, which is pathetically awful now. The last time I saw him in person (which was at my sister's wedding), he had a black eye, which he claims was from him falling down the stairs.

My grandmother and my aunt have given up on him; neither of my siblings or my mother trust him at all. My mother is currently going through the annulment process; a little too late, given how my father has ruined our credit rating and almost left my mother without anything looking at all like a retirement fund.

He used to skip work sometimes to go drinking - he would claim that I was having some kind of school event, like a concert or something. It was pretty normal, really - I just kinda took it for granted that sometimes my dad would go to the bar instead of eating dinner with us, or that he'd get in shouting matches with my mother.

Looking back, I have to wince a bit; I took finding my dad's stash of empty wine bottles he was hiding from my mother in stride (there was something like twenty empty bottles there). What makes it worse is that he can't hold down a long-term job anymore - and he was always a workaholic.

I guess what really made this click home for me was looking back at older family paperwork when I was going through and shredding it - watching it go from thank-you notes praising my dad's work ethic to letters from credit card companies asking him if he needed financial support (because he hadn't paid the bills in several months) was a little heartbreaking.

I mean, I spend time worrying about being as undependable as my dad. Not much, granted - but I can't really trust myself with anything potentially addictive. I can't trust myself with relationships because, shit, my main role-model is who he is. I sit and squirm a bit whenever I watch something and it tries to play off alcoholism or drunkenness as a joke - fuck, anything that deals with addiction is too painful to watch. I can read that kind of thing, but I have to take breaks every once in a while.

And it's not as if I can tell people about it. I mean, if someone asks me why I don't go out drinking, I'll tell them that I have a "family history" of alcoholism... but I don't go into it. They don't want to know - they just see it as an evening's fun, after all. They haven't watched their alcoholic father tear his life apart, ruining their mother's life, and leaving them and their siblings with all kinds of problems.

They haven't watched someone go from reading four newspapers a day, holding a great job, and being a genuinely friendly go-getter to a husk of himself with a steadily decaying grasp on reality. They were lucky enough to grow up with a father who was actually there for their family.

...

I guess what I'm trying to say, brujon, is that you should try to take control of your life now, while you still have a chance. I wouldn't wish that kind of sickness on anyone.


I would like to thank everyone for being... god, this is the first time I've actually told anyone this stuff. I'm having problems seeing the screen through my tears, so I guess I should stop.
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Offline brujon

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #675 on: September 07, 2015, 10:43:25 PM »
I don't know... It's just that i don't want to think, right? I don't want to think, and booze is like, the weakest thing i can do to tune it all off. I just need a time off. Off out of everything. So i drink, i drink until i'm numb enough that i can just sleep it all off. And then the hangover takes over, and i'm only thinking about that, and then when that's all over, i start drinking again. Games don't distract me as much, neither do series, or anime, or movies...

It's weird.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #676 on: September 07, 2015, 10:53:39 PM »
Look Amechra, I understand this is terribly emotional for anyone. While my family's had troubles of its own with such things, it never got anywhere near that bad. My mother used to drink; she smoked until a couple of months ago (which was still like a year AFTER she had been treated for a cancerous mass on her tongue). Perhaps because I always hated the smell of cigarettes (and I have a seriously fucking sensitive nose) I never felt like trying it, and because I've always hated the feel of alcoholic beverages, I pretty much don't drink as a rule. (There's this one old friend of mine who always insists I drink at least one shot of tequila on his birthday, and the only reason I even oblige him is because he pesters me to no end if I don't.)

But here's something important that you probably already know, yet it likely isn't surfacing for you right now.

You are not your father.

My mom used to have a huge grudge with my father growing up (she divorced him when I was 6). So whenever she compared me to my dad, it was always in the least glowing of terms. Which is a shame really, because my dad has always had a number of qualities that nobody ever seems to bring up. Anyways, my point is that I pretty much spent most of my teenage years resenting the possibility of growing up to be like my dad in the bad sense. In the way that my mom would speak of him. And that made me lose sight of things that I DID look up to my dad for. Important things, all of them. You can't define your father for what he has become anymore than you can define yourself by your father, but the two of you have a bond. And it's an important one that you musn't lose sight of.

Don't be afraid of what happened to your father. You should strive to emulate his better qualities; no one is so far gone that they can't be redeemed in SOME way. It takes an ungodly amount of work to be truly wicked, after all.

I believe you can do it.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #677 on: September 07, 2015, 11:00:18 PM »
I don't know... It's just that i don't want to think, right? I don't want to think, and booze is like, the weakest thing i can do to tune it all off. I just need a time off. Off out of everything. So i drink, i drink until i'm numb enough that i can just sleep it all off. And then the hangover takes over, and i'm only thinking about that, and then when that's all over, i start drinking again. Games don't distract me as much, neither do series, or anime, or movies...

It's weird.

It's not weird. You've faced up a lot of shit, so it's only natural that you want to escape it. Trouble is, that's the appeal of drinking; it brings you to an altered state of consciousness - but it doesn't actually get you anywhere. You don't really accomplish anything that way. And here's the thing - if instead of drinking, you get something else done (anything really, pick up an instrument, learn to sew, write something down), your mind will eventually learn to take those accomplishments, however small, and turn them into a balm for your mind. The mind needs time to adjust to powerful emotions, brujon, and the best way to deal with those is being productive. It's no wonder so many people throw themselves at their work when they get dumped.

Don't drink to forget. Do something else instead. Something ACTIVE and with lasting results. Don't suppose there are boffer/swordplay groups in your area? It's really fun and it'll help you exercise to boot.
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Offline brujon

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #678 on: September 07, 2015, 11:13:56 PM »
Drinking doesn't make me forget. It makes me not think straight. It makes me laugh at shit i shouldn't be laughing at. It numbs me. It makes me fall over and sleep when by all accounts i should be up and about. Do shit? If i wanted to do anything i wouldn't be drinking.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: The Small Rants Thread X: Turn Down for Bitchin'
« Reply #679 on: September 07, 2015, 11:36:56 PM »
Brujon, the only difference between booze and cocaine is that you can only get arrested for drinking if you crash your car or break another law of some sort.

Otherwise it does exactly the same things.

Sometimes the stuff you don't wanna do is what you should do the most.
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