Author Topic: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?  (Read 8411 times)

Offline Jalle

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How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« on: May 22, 2015, 03:52:08 PM »
Hey guys

I have been wondering 'how would a high level caster actually deal with a party of lower levels attacking him/her?'. I'm DM’ing at the moment (my 2nd campaign) and it is going well, but knowing my players and the foolish choices they often make, I need to know how a caster of higher level would either teach a lower level party a lesson (or straight out slay them) if they stepped out of place or threatened/attacked him/her. Knowing how powerful magic is and how much more powerful it gets when you're getting the higher level spells, it seems like a caster should be able to handle such a situation without breaking much sweat but exactly how would he/she do it?   

Let’s just assume a pretty melee heavy party of four, combined of twohanded powerattackers, sneak attackers, maybe a wildshaped druid and a single arcane caster (a pretty common setup in my group), and a situation at close range. With these parameters the group can certainly dash out a lot of damage if the caster is not being careful or only targeting one character. And let’s assume that the characters’ individual levels are around 60% of the caster (i.e.: a 15th level caster vs. 8th-9th level characters or a 19th level vs. 12th level characters).

How would a caster with 9th level spells handle the situation if he wanted to kill the disrespecting characters? And what If he/she only wanted to disabling them?

And a caster with 8th level spells (disable and kill)?

And finally a caster with just 7th level spells (disable and kill)? 

Try to keep it rather simple without too much cheesy material. I’m thinking core, spell compendium and maybe the complete series. No campaign specific spells and no spells from obscure books or magazines. I want the solutions to be effective not because of silly spells, but simply because of the difference in power.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 04:04:40 PM by Jalle »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: How would a high level caster handle lower level party?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015, 04:02:22 PM »
Miss chances and plane shift everyone to Hell or something? They just need to keep alive and mobile (Death Ward, FoM, Mind Blank) then force hard saves.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 04:11:33 PM »
Well, they should all have some kind of Contingency or other "get out of jail free card" which will Teleport/Plane Shift/whatever them to safety in the event that they are actually about to die/be disabled/etc.

They should also have a way to avoid being hit (flying goes a long way towards this, layer other defenses on as well like Greater Mirror Image).

Otherwise it is entirely possible for a lower level party to kill them.

Once they've avoided death themselves, they can do lots of things. Just leaving (via their Contingency maybe) and sending summoned monsters back after the party would be one approach which could threaten but perhaps not kill them.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2015, 04:15:15 PM »
Though if they were willing to take a risk, poking everyone and sending them to hell is still fun. :D

Would need it prepared eight times to fit in return trips, though.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2015, 05:12:22 PM »
Or maybe one illusion to make them think they are in hell...
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2015, 05:13:43 PM »
That's less fun than actually sending them to hell.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2015, 06:39:49 PM »
Oh yes, but much easier to do mechanically. Hmm... let's see how we could send them all with one spell... If we could get them all into a Bag of Holding/Portable Hole/Enveloping Pit, then we could just pick it up and Plane Shift it to the desired location, and avoid having to beat all of those saving throws as well. So how about using an illusion to trick them into walking into an Enveloping Pit (set up before-hand, so no action), then closing it (swift action), then picking it up (move action) and Plane Shifting it to Hell (std action).  :P You might have to either go yourself, or hand the Pit to a summoned creature though, as I think Plane Shift only targets creatures and not objects.
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Offline Keldar

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2015, 10:55:59 PM »
Flee through a one way portal to Bermuda/Hell?  Then bow and teleport/plane shift home.

Offline Solo

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2015, 11:25:05 PM »
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 11:26:48 PM by Solo »
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Offline nijineko

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2015, 08:56:56 PM »
well, i'm thinking the lesser spell invulnerability effect, along with a otto's sphere of some type should about negate anything characters of that level could be expected to be able to pull off, maybe with an augury check, just in case.

it really depends on the attitude of the npc and how much attention they paid to the EOL.

Offline faeryn

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2015, 03:23:34 AM »
Submit each one to their own personal hell via a series of high level illusions & enchantments... (Solipsism comes to mind as a great spell to do this with)

Any of the upper level Summon Monster spells will do the trick as well... Nothing says "You're out of your league" like unleashing a being of immense power on those weaker than you.

The first option is great for disabling them and with the right selection of spells can be made to kill them as well... Option 2 does both equally well, disable them by a sheer display of power or command the summoned creature to kill them, in a decisively one-sided fight... (if you go the kill route, the wizard should be assisting his summoned creature via buffs &/or attacking the party/controlling the battlefield... like any self respecting conjurer should)

A few more options:

Fun with Transposition... forcefully swapping their locations constantly via transposition spells is a rather amusing strategy... Throw out Desert Diversion a few times in the mix and you can scatter the party across the world stranding them in the middle of completely random deserts with no knowledge of where they might be... bonus points if you divert the mundane martial class characters first since odds are they won't be able to just teleport back...

Actually... even better...

Translocation Trick - swap locations and appearances with one of the party members and then "eliminate" that one... establishing yourself in the party as that character... then pick them off one-by-one through a series of "accidents" or "mysterious occurrences"... should anyone wise up to your charade you need only use Translocation Trick with them and "deal with the problem" thus reestablishing your cover and allowing you to continue.... You can either string this out over a course of time, and maintain your disguise via Disguise Self, or take the quick and dirty route and proceed to eliminate them one-by-one over the next few rounds as their "friends" turn against each other...

Offline Power

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2015, 09:26:17 AM »
Take Eschew Materials and have him use Shapechange (take a form capable of vocal and somatic components, dragon or whatever) and be prebuffed with Mind Blank, Elemental Body, and preferably carrying a Ring of Freedom of Movement. Also abuse Time Stop (with Extend Metamagic Rod?) and spam Delayed Blast Fireballs on the party or just summon a shitload of monsters and wall off party members into their own little monster spammed boxes. Don't hesitate to Time Stop into a Time Stop. If you want a Wizard to be major bullshit have him carry scrolls of Time Stop. As a Wizard, it makes sense that he'd make scrolls of that.

Offline Vizzerdrix

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2015, 05:28:35 PM »
Turn them all into ducklings, and the wizard itself into the momma duck. Lead the bad lil' ducklings around for a while. Until the players get the message.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2015, 09:38:19 PM »
Power: did you go by Sisyphos on an older board?
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2015, 09:49:42 PM »
Failing everything else: gratuitous amounts of higher-levelled fire damage, converted to sonic via that feat I cannot currently remember the name of.

Or Gate in a Balor. That works.

Offline KellKheraptis

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2015, 02:17:36 PM »
From the sounds of it, a single well-placed and widened Black Tentacles would royally mess them up.  Couple that with a Cloudkill/Solid Fog/Both to finish the lockdown, and maybe set the place on fire for good measure, then estate transfer that room/building somewhere interesting.  If they're smart and a bit lucky, they -might- survive, and then -might- get back from wherever they were sent, but it should leave the lasting impression they might just be in over their heads.  Sprinkle in summons and delayed blasts to taste, possibly even throwing a high level Feeblemind at the party's caster for his/her impudence just for shits and grins.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2015, 02:35:13 PM »
+1 to Solo's posting

 :lol
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2015, 10:20:03 PM »
What do I win?
An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline Power

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2015, 11:16:52 AM »
Power: did you go by Sisyphos on an older board?
Nope.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: How would a high level caster handle a lower level party?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2015, 06:39:18 PM »
+1 to Keithran


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