Spell making in pathfinder and 3.5

[Mr. woop woop]

Pathfinder and 3.5 each have a "make your own spell" system. And the rules say just take a spell like it and modify it. So why don't we modify a spell that gives negative levels... To give positive levels/hd (temporary?)

The only problem is, you would have to get the spell green lit by the dm.(yeah right)

edit: However I guess the question should be posed. So. Would you allow such a spell in your game?
        for rounds/cl gain one class feature. the class features effective level for level dependent effects = the targets hd.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

I looked into positive levels and all I saw in the source material was crickets chirping. It seems like a development idea that even the most incompetent guy at WotC said, "Oh hell no"

Assuming you could find a non-artifact, non-epic way to get them, it would be highly useful for early entry shenanigans. I wouldn't allow a custom spell like that because it isn't necessary.

[Chemus]

Interesting; the rules exist. I saw them but ignored them. Living creatures get them for 24h. I've yet to find a creature that uses energy charge, but it's in both MMIII and the glossary.

Energy Charge (Su):

This supernatural ability bestows vital energy at a touch, and happens automatically when a melee or ranged attack hits. Each successful energy charge bestows one or more positive levels (the creature's description specifies how many) on living creatures. Unless otherwise specified in the creature's description, a draining creature loses 5 hit points for each positive level it bestows. A creature may not have more positive levels than its Constitution bonus (minimum 1).

An affected creature gains a +1 competence bonus on all skill checks and ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws, and gains one effective level or Hit Die (whenever level is used in a die roll or calculation) for each positive level. A spellcaster gains one spell slot of the highest level of spells she can cast and (if applicable) one prepared spell of that level. These gains persist until the positive level goes away.

Positive levels remain for 24 hours or until removed with a spell, such as restoration. After 24 hours, the positive level automatically goes away.

Undead react to positive levels the way nonundead react to negative levels. An undead character with negative levels at least equal to its current level is instantly destroyed. After 24 hours, an undead must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 attacker's HD + attacker's Cha modifier). (The DC is provided in the attacker's description.) If the saving throw succeeds, the positive level goes away with no harm to the creature. The afflicted creature makes a separate saving throw for each positive level it has gained. If the save fails, the positive level goes away, but the creature's level (or HD) is also reduced by one.

Getting a positive level: I don't find a source that grants one or more. A reversed enervation looks like it would do it, if allowed, and as long as you kept getting charged up, you'd have positive effective levels. These would be less than useful, as they're effective HD, not class levels, and have no skill ranks, no BAB, no spells known, no increased spell levels, etc.

Remember that your individual XP rewards would be reduced while you had positive levels, as if you had a level adjustment.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

reversed enervation

Where is "reversed" from?

[Chemus]

reversed enervation

Where is "reversed" from?

We're talking about making spells up; it's shorthand for "Does the same thing as enervation but with a reversed effect."

[Solo]

So sort of like the bard's Inspire Greatness?

[Chemus]

Yup, Solo, that's what Positive Levels look to be doing. And as I said earlier, they'd be handy for getting more (but not better) spell slots, better to-hit (but not BAB for qualification), better skill checks (but not ranks for qualification), and higher ECL. The effective levels might be of your class(es), but the entry doesn't clarify. If it were, pos levels could buff a supermount, for example. Interestingly, they don't say they give more HP, and Positive and Negative levels don't say the cancel out. Yech! But still no way I know of to get one.

[Snowbluff]

Well, here's the problem.

"I cast innervation. I gain 1d4 spell slots. I place an Innervation in one spell slot. I cast Innervation..."

[Chemus]

That's definitely an issue. It's mildly mitigated by the fact that you're limited to 1 positive level per con bonus, but you still get free spells out of it. Limited by your number of your highest level spell slots, and your access to restoration, which is mentioned in the energy charge rules, so works as well on positive levels as it does on negative ones. So it costs 100gp per 'fill-up' and cast-out sequence, and uses a 4th level slot for the "energize" to start each fill-up with. For an archivist (access to enervate through hunger domain scrolls...) this happens at 7th level.

Using enervation as the model, they'd last 1hr/CL, max 15. Presuming Con 24 at 7th level, you'd get 7 extra spellslots, minus 1 per casting of "energize" you had to use, and minus 1 more for the free restoration you're gonna remove the spent slots with. But restoration dispels all negative levels, so unless you wait for a few spent slots to go away, you'll have to have a casting of "energize" for each set of slots. 1d4 positive levels averages 2.5 pos levels per casting. You'd a net bonus of 1.5 per casting, but you'd have filled yourself at an average of 3 castings, so have about 4 extra slots that weren't used to "energize", and don't contain restoration.

Even better, by abusing the Sanctum Spell feat and crafting rules guidelines, you could get 2 gloves, one of 'out-of-sanctum' 3rd level command-word activated "energize", and one of 'out of sanctum' 2nd level (Healer 3 spell) command-word activated restoration. They'd cost CL 5×3×1800 for the "energize", and 3×2×1800 for the restoration, adding 5k for the expensive component. So that's 27k for the "energize" glove, and 15,800 for the restoration glove. Now, you have up to your Con bonus in slots of your highest level, freely refreshable. For 42,800gp; a pittance.

Remember that you also have ECL equal to the number of positive levels you're carrying. If you used this, the DM would definitely be awarding less XP to you.

So again, casters get ginormous benefits from something that would otherwise be fairly balanced.