How does a Bard do the necromancy thing?

[ketaro]

I've been mulling over a Bard Necromancer idea for the longest time, but in all my time I haven't really come across anything that would do it...

How can I make a Bard into a Necromancer without just being a Bard with levels in some other [real] arcane casting base class?

Bonus points is getting Bardic Music effects to work on mindless undead!

[Vladeshi]

Dirgesinger from Libris Mortis is the only one I can think of.
It has a prerequisite feat called Requiem that will allow you to use Bardic Music on undead, but you only get half duration.

[SorO_Lost]

Pretty much as mentioned really. If you take Requiem you can inspire your Hydra horde to levels most necromancers can't take their undead to.

Dirgesinger is ok, you lose casting but you can break things with psionc's timegel and reanimate (with full casting) stuff like Beholders, Mindflayers and Sharn. Sp pick and mix what you like.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

UA Prestige bard!   

[faeryn]

UA Prestige bard!   

I don't think that fits the parameters considering:

How can I make a Bard into a Necromancer without just being a Bard with levels in some other [real] arcane casting base class?

Prestige Bard is exactly that... a bard with levels in some other real arcane casting base class...

A Bardic Necromancer seems like it would be rather challenging, considering that Bards lack many of the iconic spells from Necromancy and to my knowledge have a very VERY limited selection of Necromancy spells (like 15 of them) So, without some way to learn those much needed Necromancy spells it might not be possible to really play a Bardic Necromancer with Bard as your base class... I guess you could try to get by with a lot of UMD checks to cast actual necromancy spells, but that would require a rather liberal interpretation of the rules, considering that the rules seem pretty clear (at least from my memory of the last time I read that section) that spell trigger and spell completion items require the spell to be castable by the character (or at least learnable by them)...

[SorO_Lost]

A Bardic Necromancer seems like it would be rather challenging, considering that Bards lack many of the iconic spells from Necromancy and to my knowledge have a very VERY limited selection of Necromancy spells (like 15 of them)

For the most part you can just use Arcane Disciple(death/undeath) to access those iconic Spells such as Desecrate (undeath only), Animate Dead, and Create/Control Undead.

[Blightersbane]

UA prestigious bard gets a -2 caster level with necromancy and evocation but a +2 with illusion and enchantment

[ketaro]

A Bardic Necromancer seems like it would be rather challenging, considering that Bards lack many of the iconic spells from Necromancy and to my knowledge have a very VERY limited selection of Necromancy spells (like 15 of them)

For the most part you can just use Arcane Disciple(death/undeath) to access those iconic Spells such as Desecrate (undeath only), Animate Dead, and Create/Control Undead.

Oh! That is really nice, I never noticed that one.

Dirgesinger does look kind of interesting, and with Arcane Disciple I wouldn't have to go for all 5 levels.

I was just talking to a room mate about it and he said that there is a feat in a Dragon Magazine that lets your bard songs affect creatures that are mindless? Either that or affect creatures with immunity to mind-effecting stuff. Anyone an idea on what feat that may be? Since I really like debuffing bard song stuff that'd help greatly late levels.

And now I went and looked at Requiem and that is exactly what I wanted. Still be nice to be able to pierce mind-affecting immunities though.


Is there anything in Pathfinder that might help this kind of build?

[Unbeliever]

There's an epic level feat, Music of the Gods, but that hardly helps you much.  You could search the Pathfinder srd and just see what pops up.

Although, I always let Requiem affect stuff like zombies.  Is there any reason it wouldn't?  Or, are you looking to be able to affect other things that are immune to mind-affecting abilities?  You might not need to bother, just have your hordes of Dragonfirely Inspired zombies take care of it.

[ketaro]

Well, yanno, Mind Blank abusers :v

[faeryn]

So I looked into some Domains after SorO_Lost brought up Arcane Disciple... and I found a few more domains that might be of interest to you...

Deathless
Deathbound
Necromancy
Necromancer
Nightbringer Initiate - (questionable if allowed via Arcane Disciple, as this is a feat granted Domain from the Nightbringer Initiate feat which is for druids)

For some non-undead minion swarm oriented domains

Decay
would also list Blightbringer here, but it only grants maybe 1 spell that isn't already available to bards... but taking it would also mean having more choices of spells off the bard list to learn too...



With domains granting the iconic spells needed for a necromancer (and the spells required for nearly every necromancy focused prC) this sort of build is looking far more doable... and has far more options available to it now.

[ketaro]

So much thanks looking into those domains faeryn!

Finding a god with more than one of these domains and grabbing the feat maybe a 2nd time could also be nice...
Most of the domains don't have much overlap in spells, but a couple would be nice to be able to cast more than once for the spells that do overlap

I think I can actually start working out a real build for this concept now after having it been rolling around aimlessly in my head for so long now 

[Thurbane]

The Necromantic Bloodline feat from Dragon Compendium isn't a bad option for a Necro-bard, but it does mean you lose Cure spells.

[ketaro]

The Necromantic Bloodline feat from Dragon Compendium isn't a bad option for a Necro-bard, but it does mean you lose Cure spells.

What does it do? Cause I can't remember Cure spells actually being useful for a bard 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Is there anything in Pathfinder that might help this kind of build?

PF has an archetype, the Dirge Bard.  I kinda like it.  Main features are Dance of the Dead (use a performance to animate dead...NON-evil-y...somehow) and Secrets of the Grave, which gives a lot of things.  Most notably, mind-affecting spells work on undead and getting to cherry pick a necromancy spell from other arcane lists onto yours at levels 2, 6, 10, etc...
Sadly, and despite the archetype's own fluff text, you don't get the ability to inspire courage the undead with it, but there's probably a feat for that, and 3E has one if not.

[Solo]

Main features are Dance of the Dead (use a performance to animate dead...NON-evil-y...somehow)

Cause this is thriller

[Thurbane]

What does it do? Cause I can't remember Cure spells actually being useful for a bard 

Adds one spell known to each spells level:

1 Cause Fear
2 Ghoul Touch
3 Vampiric Touch
4 Contagion
5 Dominate Person (already on the Bard 4 list)
6 Eyebite (already on the Bard 6 list)

...admittedly, not as useful for a Bard as for a Sorcerer.

It's also a gateway feat to get Kin Mastery, which lets you turn or rebuke undead.

The same book also has Song of the Dead, which allows your mind-affecting spells to affect intelligent undead.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Main features are Dance of the Dead (use a performance to animate dead...NON-evil-y...somehow)

Cause this is thriller

I usually describe the class feature as this, yes.