Fighter or Bladelock??

[Newsman77]

Hello Fellow Gamers

Could you please give me your advice? I'll be joining an second round of Princes of the Apocalypse in a few days. Our last group wiped, and now we're having to start all over again, at level 1. Our table uses the standard array and only things from PHB & DMG are allowed, and we need to be "good guys" and not a roving murder squad. There are 6 other people in the party: TWF Ranger, Archer Fighter, Melee Cleric, Barbarian, Sorcerer, Valor Bard.

My background is that I'm chasing a member of my order who has gone rogue and become a serial killer. My mentor and I'm are assigned to track him down and bring him back to face justice. We're in Red Larch because that's where he was last spotted after murdering the mother of two other PC's.

So I came up with these 2 builds (Battlemaster & Bladelock). Which one would be the better on to play, to keep up with the pack and still remain useful to the group. My only concern is the Bladelock won't be able to keep up.

1) A Jedi type character, using Warlock to simulate the force push, mind trick etc.
Human Variant Warlock 1
10/16/14/8/12/14
Variant Feat: Alert
Pack: Fiend or Great Old One
**Plans to go Bladelock, pick up Devil's Sight, Darkness, Hex.

2) A more bounty hunter type character
Human Variant Fighter 1
16/12/14/8/14/10
Variant Feat: Polearm Master
Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting
**Plans to go Battlemaster, (with maybe Disarm, Trip attack, etc.) pick up Great Weapon Master at 4, stat buff at 6 and maybe another feat or stat bump at 8.

I like the versatility of the Bladelock with the Eldricth Blast for ranged attacks, which is a weakness for me at melee. However, I'm usually attracted to heavy armored melee types.

What do you think? Which path should I choose?

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Or how about both ?
Fighter 1 / Warlock X , possibly Fighter 2 after Warlock 11
is also a decent and functional build.

Party-wise only the Sorc is supposed to be a backliner.
Even the Archer Fighter should be mixing it up some of the time.
This would suggest being an Artillery guy, for which Warlock is perfect.

Dwarf Warlock can fit what you want ... (Yoda is shrinking but don't tell him).
Devil's Sight + Darkness is a ++ combo, but it is NOT party friendly.

[sambojin]

If you choose Warlock,

Depending on the campaign, I'd chuck the 16 in charisma. It doesn't look like you've got a lack of potential melee fighters, and whether you're going blasty or mindfuckery, the charisma will do you well. Jedi tricks tend to require rolls, opposed or not (unless they don't, but mostly they wouldn't need dex then either). Devil's Sight, Agonising Blast, Eldritch Blast, Hex, and what? It's those last spell choices that do as much to your warlock as pact, etc could. Probably grab Repelling Blast later, if you want it. But what way will you go with the other spell choices? It's very important. Bladelock is kinda a funsies choice, so I'm probably going for power, rather than Jedi advice here.

And, ummmm, cough..... Magical Initiate instead of Alert. Because more spells. Sort of. Guidance is a spell. You even get 1 1/2 more picks off the cleric or druid list after that. And they're nice too. Almost as nice as Guidance. But not quite.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

... and going the other way is viable too.
Fighter 11 / Blade'Lock 3 , as the main parts then whatever.
Could be BM or Eldritch Knight.
Could dip Ranger SpellLess 2.
Probably want Warlock 9 after that, but not mandatory.

[Newsman77]

Or how about both ?
Fighter 1 / Warlock X , possibly Fighter 2 after Warlock 11
is also a decent and functional build.

Party-wise only the Sorc is supposed to be a backliner.
Even the Archer Fighter should be mixing it up some of the time.
This would suggest being an Artillery guy, for which Warlock is perfect.

Dwarf Warlock can fit what you want ... (Yoda is shrinking but don't tell him).
Devil's Sight + Darkness is a ++ combo, but it is NOT party friendly.

I know our archer and he will not be mixing it up. He'll focus on things like Sharpshooter, maybe crossbow expert, will play a race with darkvision and will most likely go Eldricth Knight. It's a solid build. STR will be a dump stat because he likes DEX, and a lot of it. He does not see the benefit of having STR.

Thanks, the Fighter 1/Warlock X build seems to be what I'm looking for. I'm willing to give up some damage for versatility. DM says we will probably only make it to 15 before we stop and start over. So I could squeeze another level of fighter in there, maybe one more for some Battlemaster goodness.

The Darkness+Devil's Sight does suck for the party, so I will probably stay away from it. However, I like the flexibility of throwing EB or mixing it up with Polearm Master. That sounds very appealing. (The Quarterstaff+Shield Cheese is out as our DM will not allow it.)

Sooooo.... maybe Human Variant Fighter 1 to start with something like:

16/10/14/10/8/16
Fighting Style: Defense or Great Weapon Fighting
Variant Feat: Polearm Master

*I wish there was a way to go one-handed and still get a bonus action attack in there somehow.

[sambojin]

Is that stat array kosher? I think there's one too many 16's in there (typo?).

If it is, it looks great. Slap a big bunch of armour on top of him, hex all the things, and have a bit of backup blasting and spell utility to boot.

I'd kind of be tempted to go the heavy fighter with warlock support route myself. Pact of the Blade doesn't exactly give you a lot, and burns one of your invocations for the 2x attacks.

Fighter 1->Warlock 2->Fighter 5(BM) gives you plenty to work with, and then you can grab more magic if wanted down the track. AS, BM dice, Hex and EBlast are all there, but you haven't strayed too far from a good fighter build to get it.

Then dump in a warlock level if you want your pact boons and level 2 spells, or save the levels for something else (there's plenty of charisma casters available if you decide to go a different magic route) or just more fighter levels. It also frees up your pact completely, so you can grab an invis familiar or rituals (and a normal familiar) if you want.

Armour of Agathys is nice for a combatty non-concentration spell, but Charm or even Expeditious Retreat might be just as handy. You know that there's going to be at least some RP or movement based challenges for your party to get through considering how many fighters types you have in the party, and either spell helps you breeze past them, while still being useful all campaign. Ex. retreat is only let down by its concentration, which will mostly be used by hex.

Mage Hand or Minor Illusion are always handy to have in your kit too. Neither are concentration, so you should be using them any time you're not attacking. I like Mage Hand myself, but Minor Illusion is far more versatile (but is pretty DM dependent).

Mirror Image is amazing for combat, Misty Step is handy for pop movement, and Suggestion is right up there with the most broken of spells (save and DM dependent though, see if Hex does saves or just ability checks). I'd probably pick one of those three when I grab Warlock 3, because they're all just as good as a Devil's Sight/Darkness combo, but don't annoy the rest of the party. Spider Climb is also a vastly underrated spell for a mêlée/shooter hybrid. It doesn't exactly look like flying will be your party's forte, and you can do a heap of stuff with it when needed (even if it is concentration, don't fall to your death from damage).

Going the heavy fighter route also gets you more ASIs, so you can feat out if you want, or just boost whatever stat is doing the most work for you. By the end you'll be a Fighter 12/Warlock 3, which ain't to shabby for combat or casting, and nothing really got wasted along the way. Plus you'll have a familiar or a few extra cantrips, which is nicer than an on-call weapon could ever be.

I'll chuck together a build off the standard array shortly (it'll probably be a Half Elf, but then you don't need devil's sight, and the fighter levels "eventually" make up for the loss of an initial feat. And it gives a bit of basic resist vs charm from the post below).

[Newsman77]

That's not quite kosher, it should be more like 16/10/14/8/10/15.

The only reason this worries me is your Wisdom save is low, and that can really cause problems with charms and what not from monsters. Other than that, I like it.

I like your idea of going back into Fighter instead of Warlock. The only thing is that puts your extra attack off by 2 levels. Don't you need to hit that extra attack at 5 or 6 to stay competitive and not lag behind the curve? Other than that... I like the idea of having the maneuvers and the 2 invocations.

[sambojin]

Kind of hoping Hex is about 1/2 an attack worth, and Eldritch Blast scales from character levels, so you'll temporarily be a better shooter than mêléer. Then you round it back out at 7th. BM dice also pack a bit of punch to up your damage, but can do a bit of control as well.

You'll be fairly comparable at level 5 to a normal fighter damage-wise. It's a MAD build, but fightlocks always are. Hex+BM mêlée is almost 2x attacks, and you've got 2x E.Blast as well. Plus some other stuff.

When 2x standard attacks DO come on, then you've got an ASI or lvl2 spells/pact boon straight after, your choice, depending on what dickery the rest of the party is doing.

I'll do 2 builds, because polearm master is awesome to start with (and will make your barb cry).

The spells mentioned also gives you "character arc" options. When will the person you're tracking come into being? How will you find him? Suggestion and Charm let you catch him, which is why the Jedi mindtricks are important. The 7->8th level character choice is just as important as 2x attacks. Or you could just beat the living death out of him. But not if you can't work out where and who he is.

RP is always bigger than DPR, even on a known campaign. Remember, your DM is planning evil stuff, so sometimes the softer options are far more powerful. Beat Tiamat in combat? Yeah, it's an option. But there's bigger things at play for your character.

[NumberKruncher]

I've always been a fan of the Fighter 1/Bladelock build, but I'm wondering if you might be better off as a mountain dwarf pure Bladelock.

You get medium armor, and bladelocks can use any weapons.

It's a bit more MAD (as you need a 14 DEX to take advantage of medium armor), and you'll lose out on a fighting style. But is having more spells and invocations worth it? Maybe....

[dunecat]

If I may mix this up a little.. A Bladelock X/Lore Bard 6 lets you grab the Shillelagh cantrip using your spellcasting mod (Cha in this case) And the Pact Weapon of a Bladelock can be in -any- form. I personally like Quarterstaves, for synergy with Polearm Master and Sentinel feats, but YMMV. The upside to this is that you can now attack using your Cha to hit and deal damage, and at character level 15 you can get that fancy invocation that lets you add your Cha bonus to damage -again-. It's a touch involved to get to, and does put off that second attack/round for a while, but as mentioned previously Hex helps offset that, and the end result does net you potentially a flat +20 attribute bonus to your damage, while only having to max out Cha with stat bonuses and Magic items.

[Nunkuruji]

What I don't like about non strength melee characters is that a good number of MM monsters have rider effects that are Strength saving throw, or be push, pulled, restrained, prone, etc. Maybe you make up for it with a magic item later, maybe you don't.