3.5 Ubercharger Advice

[New-to-PF]

Ok Jackinthegreen,  Thanks for the link. That is very very helpful. Although drow fighter isn't really a benefit to an ubercharger, at least that is my opinion on it. I think the bonus feat would be a better choice. I don't think an extra 3 damage (even if I had a +6 item for plus 6 damage)  would be beneficial when it's 1. situational and 2. Adding to 300+ damage by level 9 anyway. I will however keep this link handy in case there are other ACF's I do like.

[SorO_Lost]

1) I like the idea of boomerang, how do I hit multiple opponents or even the same one twice?

Use multiple boomerangs.
There is also a ricochet feat if you like, same book.

2) I am not sure how monk and barbarian tie together unless your saying to give up rage by becoming lawful and just continue in that path.

Chaos Monk^{Dragon #335 page 88}, but not sure if you have access to it? You also have substitutions for Pounce, it's just if you wish to have Pounce with a Greatsword it's hard to beat a level in Barbarian compared to the other options. Unarmed has it's own unique sets through. Anyway, sky's the limit, give me some direction and I'll see if I can find a way.

Ok Jackinthegreen,  Thanks for the link. That is very very helpful. Although drow fighter isn't really a benefit to an ubercharger, at least that is my opinion on it.

The Dex-to-Damage is multiplied by your charging damage, and the +2 Initiative stacks with the actual Improved Initiative Feat, and the previous example (pa, im-bull, shock, battle jump, headlong) still has two Feat slots left over by the 6th level.

But counter point, you like the boomerang. Proficiency/Daze would be using those two slots. So to combine them all you'd be looking at the 7th level, Fighter 6 / Barbarian 1.

I did see the Occult Slayer class and thought it's level 5 ability to be immune to all mind affecting spells and spell like abilities would be great, but it doesn't help me avoid damage spells.

You can obtain protection form targeted Spells by obtaining Total-Concealment against your opponents. Invisibility is one such way to do that and Hiding is another.

What do you think about going for composite longbow specializing?  Is it already too late to really be decent enough at this to make a difference when I can't get close enough to melee?

Well if you drop the boomerang feats you have 2 open by the 6th level to pick something up. Composite longbows let you add your Str modifier so Raging will help your damage.

Ever seen Hank's Bow?

[Argent Fatalis]

If you are worried about taking hit point damage after having shored up your other, far more important defenses - namely Will saving throws - you could potentially use the option of the Pugilist Fighter. This specialist fighter variant is from Dragon Magazine #310 and provides the following benefit:

Shake It Off: The pugilist develops non-lethal damage only and reduces the duration of all stunning effects by 1 round, with a minimum of 1 round. The pugilist may take this ability multiple times; its effects stack.

I added the bold section for emphasis, but worthy of note is that this special ability merely trades a fighter bonus feat for it (at any fighter bonus feat level), making it an easy pick. That, and it isn't listed as anything (not even Extraordinary, which I presume it should be).

And you get Improved Unarmed Strike and Endurance as bonus feats at 1st fighter level for using this variant.

[Endarire]

Hood.

Because it's my build and it one-shots or one-rounds anything officially printed by ECL20.

[SorO_Lost]

It's not a build, it's a guide themed after Final Fantasy's Dragoons.
*cough*
I mean I knew you'd pop in and link it at some point

[New-to-PF]

Ok. So it's been a few days and I've done some research for what I'd like to do after level 9. The problem I ran into was there are not many (if any) really good prestige classes for fighters. 

I looked at the dervish because it seemed fun, but I'm not going down the 2 weapon fighting line. I like the Warforged juggernaut but I'm not a Warforged.  I did talk to my DM about the hulking hurler and war hulk but he said he would cap the damage at 20d6 because over a thousand d6 of damage is just plain rediculous and he isn't having me roll all that out each time I attack. While that's still an average of 60 damage and it solves the ranged issue, I don't feel it's worth the levels and could probably find a better alternative.

I feel like this puts me back at square one. I do like the mage slayer idea but it reminds me of the monks slow fall ability. It takes too long to get when a  level 1 wizard spell is better.

I think I'm going to stick with the boomerang thing if my DM allows it, it's only 2 feats to burn and is worth it to keep an enemy on lock down each round.

I like the hood builds but that's a lot of multiclassing and I don't think my DM would allow it without xp penalties. Great job btw.

What do you all think about the combat focus feats,  I need basically 3 of them to get max benefits but they seem alright at first glance?

The fighter pugilist variant looks great, since I plan on taking steadfast determination anyway the endurance feat is also a benefit.

[Jackinthegreen]

Dervish doesn't require TWF though it is helpful in some ways.  One of the interesting things it can do is let the person use the Knockback feat repeatedly against the same enemy in a full attack using Dervish Dance.  A guisarme works quite well in that case.

The Exotic Weapon Master is great for an ubercharger due to the Uncanny Blow stunt which allows adding for 2x strength mod to damage with a one-handed exotic weapon held in two hands.

The Combat Focus line doesn't do enough to be worth it.

If you're going into thrower with boomerangs you'll want the Brutal Throw feat which keys the attack roll off Strength instead of Dexterity.  Then you can get Power Throw to boost the damage higher, but the returns on that can be much less than impressive.  Still works great with Boomerang Daze and Boomerang Ricochet.

[nijineko]

a bit off the beaten path, but i found a MotUH to be decent at this sort of concept, though it doesn't do it's damage from charging, so it may not qualify as a "charger". being able to bull-rush four targets per round, or one target four times per round was kinda fun in certain circumstances.

[Jackinthegreen]

It would probably be better to fully spell out the initialisms and such for the sake of those who don't know.

In this case, MotUH is Master of the Unseen Hand from Complete Warrior.

[Wingboner]

About dungeoncrasher being easy to outdamage. Yes, it's true... If you don't take the feat that gives a free bull rush on every attack. Pin them against the wall, full attack and see them bounce.

[SorO_Lost]

About dungeoncrasher being easy to outdamage. Yes, it's true... If you don't take the feat that gives a free bull rush on every attack. Pin them against the wall, full attack and see them bounce.

Said Feat, Knockback, also requires you to be Large and as already covered it's cost ineffective.

Basically it's like using Maximized Phantasmal Killer instead of Finger of Death. One checks for additional chances to resist and more effort was put into it to do the job it wanted to do all so in very rare cases it looks like it's more useful. Feasible != optimization.

[Jackinthegreen]

Large or Powerful Build.  Either way, if it's damage you primarily want then Dungeoncrasher isn't the way to go since the feats can be more impactful.  If the primary shtick is bull rushing and control then DC will work fine if the core feats for that style can be had elsewhere.

[phaedrusxy]

I've been working on a build that might interest the OP. Although I am taking 4 levels of fighter, I'm opting not to take Dungeon Crasher because the feat seems worth more.

I will have Pounce + Knockback + Shock Trooper + Improved Trip, so I will get to attempt a Bull Rush against everyone I hit, knock them into their allies and then try to trip both, and get a free attack on any successful trips. I'll use a reach weapon + armor spikes and be large, so I'll threaten a huge area, making it likely I'll be able to reach them for those free attacks.

I'll also have Steadfast Determination and a massive Con score, so Fort and Will saves should be fairly easy. I'm starting at 6th level, so that's as far as I've outlined it at this point and one of the House Rules I'm playing under with this build is that Power Attack is a combat option for everyone, not a feat. So it's not listed below (Of course, you could just pick this up via a Flaw, etc).

I considered using the Whirling Frenzy rage variant, but I expect I'll be getting a lot of extra attacks, and I'd rather not have the -2 penalty to them. The extra Con is probably worth more than the AC boost, also.

Goliath Barbarian 2 (Wolf and Lion (CChamp) Totem)/Fighter 4

Ability Scores (32 pb)
Str 18 (16+2race) (10)
Dex 14 (15-2race+1lvl) (8)
Con 18 (16+2race) (10)
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 10

Feats: Endurance (1), Improved Trip (Bar2 bonus), Improved Bull Rush (Ftr1), Knockback (Ftr2), Extra Rage (3), Shock Trooper (Ftr4) Steadfast Determination (6)

Tactics: Heedless Charge pounce with a 2-handed reach weapon
Free Bull Rush against anyone hit, using Directed Bull Rush + Domino Rush to knock them into each other, tripping them. Improved Trip gives me free attacks against anyone tripped as well.

Later: Combat Reflexes, Leap Attack, Reckless Rage, ?

[New-to-PF]

Phaedrusxy. I like the concept you have here, you seem to be focusing more on the Barbarian aspect than I originally thought to in my build. I don't know if the heedless charge and domino rush can both be applied like that, it's just a lot to wrap my head around. If that's the case then you have a pretty good round of control and death to just about anything in a 20 ft radius. I am a half orc (to take headlong charge)so I don't have powerful build or large size, but I think I might be able to obtain a permanency spell with enlarge person by lvl 6 or so if I save wisely, then I should be able to take knockback.

Also, would it be more beneficial for me to go human and drop headlong  charge in place for a bonus feat and no multiclassing xp penalties? I happened upon a thread in which someone had 1 level in like 10 different classes and gave them a base of like 20 to each of their saves. Anyone else seen this? Would it be viable since I would be able to effectively 1 shot just about anything and then casters would be almost useless because u would make all my saves?

[Jackinthegreen]

Yes, Heedless Charge can be combined with Domino Rush.  Neither one prevents the other after all.  In fact, all three tactics that Shock Trooper allows for can be combined at the same time thanks to Knockback.

Hang on, your DM enforces multiclass penalties?  They're an idiot in that case.

[New-to-PF]

Good to know, I may have to obtain large size in order to  get knock back and use all 3 features of shock trooper and yes the DM allows a maximum of 3 classes (favored + 2) unless your a human,  he seems to think that makes things more balanced.

[Jackinthegreen]

Considering human is one of the best races even without multiclassing potential, he's a bit off on his assessment.

The three races with Powerful Build are Goliath (Races of Stone), Half-giant (Expanded Psionics Handbook/ Complete Psionic), and Eneko (Secrets of Sarlona).  Those all qualify for Knockback too, so you can be medium while still having that feat.  They're all LA +1 though.

Large size would require having a permanent Enlarge Person cast on you (and you'd have a ring or something that can counter that while you wear it so you can go back to medium) or else it'd take LA +2 like Half-ogre in Races of Destiny or racial hit dice.

[linklord231]

Goliath has Favored Class: Barbarian, so it wouldn't take multiclass XP penalties in Phae's build, and is eligible for the Goliath Barbarian Racial Substitution Level found in Races of Stone.  Taking that level would allow you to fully grow to Large size when raging, as well as give you an additional +2 Str in a rage. 

[New-to-PF]

I'm not a fan of level adjustment, so I don't usually go with alternate races. I personally like clerics and always just go human for the feat and skills because losing that level of spellcasting is critical, but that's why this campaign has my interest. I'm not used to having minimal responsibility in role play issues and basically being there for the fun stuff (combat).

I've done some research and looked through all the forums I could find and paid especially close attention to everyone here on these forums and this is what I've come up with so far.

level 1, barbarian (Spirit lion totem for pounce , whirling frenzy)
Feat: power attack.

Planning ahead:
Level 2, fighter
feat: exotic weapon proficiency spiked chain
Level 3, fighter
Feats: improved bull rush, endurance
Level 4, fighter
Feats none
level 5, fighter
feat: leap attack
Level 6, barbarian (Spirit totem wolf for imp trip)
Feat: shock trooper
level 7, fighter
feat: none
Level 8, fighter
feat: steadfast determination

After this I am not sure where to go. I tend to agree with the concept of never take more than 6 levels in fighter, although if I go with the boomerang idea that's 2 feats, 3 if I wanna do the ricochet so it may be worthwhile to take 8. Any suggestions in this matter? Anyone think I should change the progression I have so far?  I have considered not going the steadfast determination route and adding battle jump and headlong charge for more multipliers but we are starting at level 1 so I want my character to be able to function pretty well until I get up towards level 10.

Thanks again all, I have plenty of time to decide on what to do after level 9 so no rush on that, I still kinda like the 1 level of each class idea to get my saves up but I'd have to go human and lose out on the +2 str

[phaedrusxy]

Goliath has Favored Class: Barbarian, so it wouldn't take multiclass XP penalties in Phae's build, and is eligible for the Goliath Barbarian Racial Substitution Level found in Races of Stone.  Taking that level would allow you to fully grow to Large size when raging, as well as give you an additional +2 Str in a rage.

That's exactly what I am doing. Sorry if I didn't spell this out explicitly.

I took the second level of wolf barbarian for the Improved Trip bonus feat (the main thing this avoids is needing the Int 13 for Combat Expertise), and Mountain Rage is an incredible buff, giving +6 Str, +4 Con and true Large size (reach). I don't think I'll take any more barbarian levels, but I might take another Extra Rage feat if I feel that 3x/day isn't enough. Are there any magic items that give more rages per day?

LA isn't nearly as big of a deal for non-casters, and I feel that with Mountain Rage goliath is certainly worth the +1.

I wouldn't bother with trying to multiclass more just for the save bumps. A monk dip is worth it for many characters (2 levels = +3 to all saves, Evasion, and three feats), but unless you can use a variant there is the obvious alignment conflict problem here.