Author Topic: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]  (Read 3994 times)

Offline Stratovarius

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Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« on: September 01, 2015, 01:24:21 PM »
So, this class exists because Jackinthegreen mentioned it would be interesting to see a Sublime Chord redone as a Martial class. So, here it is.

Sublime Champion

"They breed but to be killed"
- Lanlinariu, Elven Sublime Champion


Text

Becoming a Sublime Champion
Text

Table 1: The Sublime Champion
Hit Die: d8

Code: [Select]
Level  BAB    Ref   Fort  Will   Special Abilities   Maneuvers Known   Maneuvers Readied   Stances Known
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1    +1     +0    +2    +2     Martial Knowledge   3        2    1
  2    +2     +0    +3    +3     Lorestrike          4        2    1
  3    +3     +1    +3    +3                         5        3    1
  4    +4     +1    +4    +4                         6        3    1
  5    +5     +1    +4    +4                         7        4    2
  6    +6     +2    +5    +5     Stance of Mastery   8        4    2
  7    +7     +2    +5    +5                         9        5    2
  8    +8     +2    +6    +6                         10        5    2
  9    +9     +3    +6    +6                         11        6    3
  10   +10    +3    +7    +7     Supreme Lorestrike  12                6                   3

Class skills (4 + Int modifier per level): Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Martial Lore, Sense Motive, Swim, Tumble

Requirements:
Skills: Martial Lore 13 ranks, 8 ranks in 4 of Tumble, Concentration, Sense Motive, Hide, Balance, Jump
Maneuvers: Any two maneuvers
Feats: Blade Meditation in Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, or Tiger Claw
             
Class Features
Text
  • Maneuvers: You begin your career with knowledge of three martial maneuvers. The disciplines available to you are Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw. You must meet a maneuver's prerequisite to learn it. Once you know a maneuver, you must ready it before you can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by Sublime Champions is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in its description. Your maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you initiate one. Upon reaching 2nd level, and at every even-numbered Sublime Champion level after that (4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th), you can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one you already know. In effect, you lose the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. You can choose a new maneuver of any level you like, as long as you observe your restriction on the highest-level maneuvers you know; you need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. For example, upon reaching 10th level, you could trade in a single 1st-, 2nd-, 3rd- or 4th-level maneuver for a maneuver of 5th level or lower, as long as you meet the prerequisite of the new maneuver. You can swap only a single maneuver at any given level. You add your full Sublime Champion levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest-level maneuvers known.
  • Maneuvers Readied: You can ready two of your three maneuvers known at 1st level, and as you advance in level and learn more maneuvers, you are able to ready more, but you must still choose which maneuvers to ready. You ready your maneuvers by meditating and exercising for 5 minutes. The maneuvers you choose remain readied until you decide to meditate again and change them. You need not sleep or rest for any long period of time to ready your maneuvers; any time you spend 5 minutes in meditation, you can change your readied maneuvers. You begin an encounter with all your readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiate a maneuver, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (unless you recover them, as described below). You can recover an expended maneuver by using a fullround action to quickly meditate. Doing this does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If you complete your meditation, you can choose one expended maneuver to refresh. It is now available for use in a subsequent round.
  • Stances Known: You begin play with knowledge of one stance from any of your disciplines open to you. At each indicated level, you can choose additional stances. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended, and you do not have to ready them. All the stances you know are available to you at all times, and you can change the stance you currently use as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with maneuvers, you cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one you already know.
  • Martial Knowledge (Ex): A Sublime Champion collects odd bits of lore and knowledge regarding the Sublime Way. She adds her Sublime Champion class level to any Martial Lore checks.
  • Lorestrike (Ex): A Sublime Champion of 2nd level can use her martial knowledge to assist her initiating. As a move action, she can make a Martial Lore check. For every 10 points of her check result, she adds 1d6 damage on her next strike. She can use this a number of times per day equal to her class level.
  • Stance of Mastery (Ex): The save DC (if any) of any maneuver you initiate increases by 1 if it is from the same discipline as the stance you are currently in.
  • Supreme Lorestrike (Ex): A Sublime Champion of 10th level can use her martial knowledge to assist her initiating. As a move action, she can make a Martial Lore check. For every 30 points of her check result, she may target one additional creature who is within legal range on her next strike. She can use this three times per day.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 01:27:00 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2015, 06:32:14 AM »
Have to say the class... pushes me away, a bit. Mainly because, unlike every other Martial Prestige class (well, official ones, I don't know what homebrew's been up to), it doesn't stack your IL (scratch that, just saw it. But what if you have multiple IL's, from entering as a multiclassed Adept?) or your maneuvers (known or readied). It also doesn't seem to fit the "Sublime Chord" basis, because it provides neither the accelerated path to ninth-level maneuvers... which I'm now realizing doesn't make sense, because Martial Adepts naturally get ninth-levels...

I honestly don't know where I'm going with this.

Not stacking maneuvers is weird. That's where I'm going with it. Especially since it seems to be designed to be entered by a Martial Adept (of some flavor) 10, thanks to the skill requirement of Martial Lore 13 + some discipline skills, and the feat requirement of Blade Meditation.

it's late i'm sorry for rambling

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2015, 07:47:45 AM »
Have to say the class... pushes me away, a bit. Mainly because, unlike every other Martial Prestige class (well, official ones, I don't know what homebrew's been up to), it doesn't stack your IL (scratch that, just saw it. But what if you have multiple IL's, from entering as a multiclassed Adept?) or your maneuvers (known or readied). It also doesn't seem to fit the "Sublime Chord" basis, because it provides neither the accelerated path to ninth-level maneuvers... which I'm now realizing doesn't make sense, because Martial Adepts naturally get ninth-levels...

I honestly don't know where I'm going with this.

Not stacking maneuvers is weird. That's where I'm going with it. Especially since it seems to be designed to be entered by a Martial Adept (of some flavor) 10, thanks to the skill requirement of Martial Lore 13 + some discipline skills, and the feat requirement of Blade Meditation.

it's late i'm sorry for rambling

Welcome back Gazz. Didn't realize you'd dropped back into the forums :D

So, this being based on a Sublime Chord is where it picks up most of its quirks. The skill requirements are a more or less direct translation of the original Sublime Chord ones, with the lesser ones traded in for skills from 4 of the 6 disciplines. As is the requirement of needing to know a few maneuvers before entering the class (it was spells before).

As for the stacking, it works the same way as all martial adepts - two different pools of known/readied, but one initiator level for everything. So, in some ways it doesn't add a hell of a lot over, say, Swordsage 10 (which is what it's based on). It's more a result of the way the Martial Adept system is written, with its always stacking initiator levels, makes something like the Sublime Chord somewhat impossible to design. Hence the class looking like it does.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2015, 10:20:17 AM »
Actually, IL is not the same between classes for a multiclass martial adept.

The exact rules quote in ToB page 39 is:

Quote
For example, a 7th-level crusader/5th-level swordsage
has an initiator level of 9th for determining the highest level
maneuvers he can take as a crusader. As a result, he
can take 5th-level crusader maneuvers. As a swordsage, his
initiator level is 8th, allowing him to take 4th-level swordsage
maneuvers.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2015, 10:26:54 AM »
Actually, IL is not the same between classes for a multiclass martial adept.

The exact rules quote in ToB page 39 is:

Quote
For example, a 7th-level crusader/5th-level swordsage
has an initiator level of 9th for determining the highest level
maneuvers he can take as a crusader. As a result, he
can take 5th-level crusader maneuvers. As a swordsage, his
initiator level is 8th, allowing him to take 4th-level swordsage
maneuvers.

Silly me, that's what I get for forgetting to check the rules. I remembered that non-adept classes added +1/2 their levels, and just assumed that adepts added +1, instead of half as well. That does play into this class's favour though, since it stacks with the presumed other martial adept class taken beforehand.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2015, 11:08:20 PM »
Actually, IL is not the same between classes for a multiclass martial adept.

The exact rules quote in ToB page 39 is:

Quote
For example, a 7th-level crusader/5th-level swordsage
has an initiator level of 9th for determining the highest level
maneuvers he can take as a crusader. As a result, he
can take 5th-level crusader maneuvers. As a swordsage, his
initiator level is 8th, allowing him to take 4th-level swordsage
maneuvers.

Silly me, that's what I get for forgetting to check the rules. I remembered that non-adept classes added +1/2 their levels, and just assumed that adepts added +1, instead of half as well. That does play into this class's favour though, since it stacks with the presumed other martial adept class taken beforehand.
Yeah, I came back a few days ago. Probably not the best plan, since a new college semester's starting up, but hey.

And okay, then I see how it works. Guess it works out fine then, forgot the quirk of Sublime Chord not adding to Bard but being their own set of casting.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2015, 03:26:56 PM »
Looking this over again, I might have lean towards changing the list up a bit, being a bit more Warblade themed: Diamond Mind, Devoted Spirit, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, White Raven. It feels less mystical and more combat oriented than Setting Sun, Desert Wind, and Shadow Hand.

Would also need to change the entry prereqs to match, of course.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2015, 07:21:58 PM »
Looking this over again, I might have lean towards changing the list up a bit, being a bit more Warblade themed: Diamond Mind, Devoted Spirit, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, White Raven. It feels less mystical and more combat oriented than Setting Sun, Desert Wind, and Shadow Hand.

Would also need to change the entry prereqs to match, of course.
Normal SC gets access to +3 levels of spells; why not have this version get access to all the disciplines?

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2015, 07:42:56 PM »
Normal SC gets access to +3 levels of spells; why not have this version get access to all the disciplines?

That'd be too much, I think. Would certainly overshadow the Master of Nine, among others. Plus, that's more access than any of the base classes have. 6 Disciplines is already the most there is.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Sublime Champion [ToB, Prestige]
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2015, 08:41:53 PM »
Normal SC gets access to +3 levels of spells; why not have this version get access to all the disciplines?

That'd be too much, I think. Would certainly overshadow the Master of Nine, among others. Plus, that's more access than any of the base classes have. 6 Disciplines is already the most there is.
Hmm, true.

It'd be interesting to give it access to all the disciplines that your previous class couldn't access. I don't know, I'm just throwing out weird ideas at this point.