Author Topic: The Politics Thread v2  (Read 181120 times)

Offline stanprollyright

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • The Looks
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #380 on: November 11, 2015, 03:53:43 PM »
So a cameraman was let on tour around Ben Carson's home, and he saw some really spooky shit.

I think he's just a straight-up con artist seeing how far he can go with this.  Like, I don't even believe he's a real doctor.
Goats are like mushrooms
If you shoot a duck I'm scared of toasters

Offline Samwise

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #381 on: November 11, 2015, 10:41:06 PM »
Look at South America. See how Brasil fills all the middle? The other colonies simply couldn't hold together. It was geograhically impossible for them to remain under a single government.

They were under 3 governments, not 1.
And while the geography didn't help there were significant political elements as well.
Even with that, Brazil could easily have fractured the way they did but it didn't. And it could have violently ended slavery but it didn't. And it could have gone through violent revolutions at multiple critical historical points but it didn't. And it could have indulged in a succession of military dictators but it didn't. Brazil is seriously unique compared to the rest of Central and South America.
For that matter, Brazil has been more politically stable than Portugal, which makes it unique among all colonies!

Quote
I believe it's a matter that the americas native population was pretty much fully exterminated and nowadays there's just a few tiny, dwindling pockets left.

While the Africa natives have proved pretty damn tough and still are the majority in their land despite all the centuries of exploration and war.

That's definitely a major factor.  :D
However it doesn't account for the internal balkanization of Africa, or why the rather disparate communities of North America didn't balkanize in the fact of their differences. This is particularly true when you consider that the U.S. was founded well before the native populations were anywhere near endangered. It also doesn't account for developments in Canada.

Quote
A descendent from africans rules the USA right now. You'll however never see an actual american native descended from the people that were there before the colonists arrived and went all DISEASE KILL BURN FREEDOM! making it to president of the USA. Or any important political place for the matter.

Vice President, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, Senator, Representative, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, District Judge, army General.
Pretty much all that's missing is President, Supreme Court Justice/Chief Justice, full cabinet Secretary, and Governor.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #382 on: November 12, 2015, 05:33:15 PM »

The US actually had a Native American Vice President, Charles Curtis, under President Herbert Hoover ...

Huh interesting.
<goes to wiki>

You'd think the current Repubs would be pushing this guy ...

Kay Starr and Oscar Pettiford were 3/4 native,
#1 hits in the 50s and #1 bassist of 40s Be-Bop, respectively.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline MrWolfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 376
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #383 on: November 15, 2015, 04:53:41 PM »

The US actually had a Native American Vice President, Charles Curtis, under President Herbert Hoover ...

Huh interesting.
<goes to wiki>

You'd think the current Repubs would be pushing this guy ...

Kay Starr and Oscar Pettiford were 3/4 native,
#1 hits in the 50s and #1 bassist of 40s Be-Bop, respectively.

To be fair, the current republican party has jack-all to do with the republicans of the 30s. They actually started out fighting for the rights of minorities.
A little madness goes a long way...

Offline KellKheraptis

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 438
  • Temporal Dissonance Technician
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #384 on: November 15, 2015, 06:30:49 PM »

The US actually had a Native American Vice President, Charles Curtis, under President Herbert Hoover ...

Huh interesting.
<goes to wiki>

You'd think the current Repubs would be pushing this guy ...

Kay Starr and Oscar Pettiford were 3/4 native,
#1 hits in the 50s and #1 bassist of 40s Be-Bop, respectively.

To be fair, the current republican party has jack-all to do with the republicans of the 30s. They actually started out fighting for the rights of minorities.

My current take on the two main parties now are Repubs only ever fight FOR the rights of corporations over everyone, as that's who pays the bills, and Dems only fight AGAINST individual rights, as it might offend someone.  Now correct me if I'm wrong, but by its base definition, taking away rights is moving to the right politically, and in particular in this instance, moving towards utter facism.  But the current definition of it being "liberal" or "conservative" now is dictated only by if it's championed by a jackass or a pachyderm.

Offline Samwise

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #385 on: November 15, 2015, 10:02:10 PM »
To be fair, the current republican party has jack-all to do with the republicans of the 30s. They actually started out fighting for the rights of minorities.

To be fair, opposing special privileges is not the same as fighting against the rights of anyone.

Conversely, demanding special privileges for one group of minorities is too often fighting against the rights of other minorities, such as the Democrats are demanding in universities in California currently.

Offline Samwise

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #386 on: November 15, 2015, 10:07:13 PM »
My current take on the two main parties now are Repubs only ever fight FOR the rights of corporations over everyone, as that's who pays the bills, and Dems only fight AGAINST individual rights, as it might offend someone.  Now correct me if I'm wrong, but by its base definition, taking away rights is moving to the right politically, and in particular in this instance, moving towards utter facism.  But the current definition of it being "liberal" or "conservative" now is dictated only by if it's championed by a jackass or a pachyderm.

SHHHHH!!!!!
You're not supposed to mention things like that out loud!
They're listening!!!
 ;)

As a note though, the Democrats are sold out to special interests just as badly as the Republicans are, and throw even more money at favored groups.
Further, ending that among Republicans is one the primary goals of the internal disagreement within the conservative ranks right now.

Offline MrWolfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 376
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #387 on: November 16, 2015, 12:37:36 PM »
My current take on the two main parties now are Repubs only ever fight FOR the rights of corporations over everyone, as that's who pays the bills, and Dems only fight AGAINST individual rights, as it might offend someone.  Now correct me if I'm wrong, but by its base definition, taking away rights is moving to the right politically, and in particular in this instance, moving towards utter facism.  But the current definition of it being "liberal" or "conservative" now is dictated only by if it's championed by a jackass or a pachyderm.

Dems also support things like gay marriage, which involves granting rights to a group that is currently denied them, and Republicans fight for gun rights and the interests of certain religious factions, as well as corporations. It's not all so clear cut. In general they all support government supremacy over individual rights though--they just differ somewhat in the specifics.

To be fair, opposing special privileges is not the same as fighting against the rights of anyone.

Conversely, demanding special privileges for one group of minorities is too often fighting against the rights of other minorities, such as the Democrats are demanding in universities in California currently.

Equal rights are not "special privileges", nor is addressing ingrained, systematic inequalities by giving a hand up to marginalized groups in an effort to balance out centuries of oppression. Taking away the rights of others in order to appease one group's religious dogma however, is.

There's also a load of bigoted policies the Republican party actively supports, such as the current racist mandatory minimum sentencing laws. So they're not just fighting against equality for minorities, but actively attacking their rights as well.
A little madness goes a long way...

Offline Samwise

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #388 on: November 16, 2015, 03:47:09 PM »
Equal rights are not "special privileges", nor is addressing ingrained, systematic inequalities by giving a hand up to marginalized groups in an effort to balance out centuries of oppression.

Giving special privileges is giving special privileges and not giving equal rights. That is why they are called "special privileges" and not "equal rights".
You cannot correct having given special privileges to one group by giving special privileges to another group. All you do is replace on set of "ingrained, systematic inequalities" with a different set.

Quote
Taking away the rights of others in order to appease one group's religious dogma however, is.

So you agree that taking away the rights of people to appease the dogma of atheists is wrong.
See above for how giving special privileges is not giving equal rights.

Quote
There's also a load of bigoted policies the Republican party actively supports, such as the current racist mandatory minimum sentencing laws. So they're not just fighting against equality for minorities, but actively attacking their rights as well.

Are the minimum sentencing laws different based on the race of the criminal?
Or just different based on the crime?
Oh right, just based on the crime. Which means they are not actually racist.
Now what is racist is advocating that a certain group not be punished, or receive less punishment, for their crimes because of their race. That is what Democrats support.

Offline bhu

  • Uncle Kittie
  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16306
  • Fnord bitches
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #389 on: November 16, 2015, 05:32:26 PM »

Are the minimum sentencing laws different based on the race of the criminal?
Or just different based on the crime?
Oh right, just based on the crime. Which means they are not actually racist.
Now what is racist is advocating that a certain group not be punished, or receive less punishment, for their crimes because of their race. That is what Democrats support.

They don't have to be based on race if they target a race dis-proportionally.  As an example, Crack and Cocaine are the same for all intents and purposes, but whites favor powder cocaine while blacks prefer crack.  The sentences for crack cocaine as opposed to powder cocaine are far, far harsher.

Offline Samwise

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #390 on: November 16, 2015, 07:08:17 PM »
They don't have to be based on race if they target a race dis-proportionally.  As an example, Crack and Cocaine are the same for all intents and purposes, but whites favor powder cocaine while blacks prefer crack.  The sentences for crack cocaine as opposed to powder cocaine are far, far harsher.

Yes, I know the whole "disproportionate impact" argument and I find it unconvincing. Selective enforcement certainly, but simply different impacts, no.
The different sentences for powder versus crack are somewhat subjective, but that is at best grounds for simply making them match rather than declaring the entire system to be fundamentally and actively racist.
Of course if you really want to run with that standard, legalized abortion is outrageously racist. Which then of course becomes yet another example of claiming special privileges for one "historically disadvantaged" group that heavily discriminates against a different minority group.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #391 on: November 16, 2015, 07:13:33 PM »
If you're making an argument, it seems to be 'we should leave everything as it is now, or rather as it was some ambiguous time in the past, and not do anything because it can be interpreted as hypocrisy'. That or some really confusing attempt at trolling.

Offline SolEiji

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3045
  • I am 120% Eiji.
    • View Profile
    • D&D Wiki.org, not .com
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #392 on: November 16, 2015, 08:36:48 PM »
Complete side note, since I didn't see anyone talk about it... who saw the Dem debates this Saturday?

If you haven't, please do.  In full, not filtered 2nd hand.

It was amazing.  Also, good job Twitter.
Mudada.

Offline bhu

  • Uncle Kittie
  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16306
  • Fnord bitches
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #393 on: November 17, 2015, 01:13:18 AM »


Yes, I know the whole "disproportionate impact" argument and I find it unconvincing. Selective enforcement certainly, but simply different impacts, no.
The different sentences for powder versus crack are somewhat subjective, but that is at best grounds for simply making them match rather than declaring the entire system to be fundamentally and actively racist.

There's also the following:

Blacks are far, far more likely to get subjected to stop and frisk type laws than whites are, even though whites are more likely to be committing a crime or have illegal substances in their possession.

Black receive harsher sentences across the board for committing the same offenses as white.  A first time white offender normally gets probation, a black first time offender gets prison.

Wrongful convictions that are overturned are far more likely to be those of black men as opposed to any other race.

Black children who misbehave in school get expelled or prosecuted in some states, or even physically restrained.  White children get detention.

When the sentencing laws for harsher penalties were written, crack and heroin were seen as a problem affecting blacks.  Now that whites are increasingly using them, there's a sudden movement for lessening the penalties. 

Where I live blacks were still being lynched well into the 90's, and a town north of me is such a KKK stronghold you have to be in the Klan to be a local businessman or a cop (or run for city government).  I have seen men die for offenses that would get a white man a night in jail to 'sleep it off', and no one giving a damn because "he's just another nigger, it's not like they killed people."  The local skinheads and Klan are proud of infiltrating law enforcement at every level, and make no pretense at hiding it.  Our public officials, when announcing laws, make no bones about why they passed those laws: "to teach those niggers in the projects to keep their place."   You are either naive or willfully obtuse.  It's also possible you've lead a sheltered life, but being from NY I doubt that.

Offline Samwise

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #394 on: November 17, 2015, 04:08:29 PM »
If you're making an argument, it seems to be 'we should leave everything as it is now, or rather as it was some ambiguous time in the past, and not do anything because it can be interpreted as hypocrisy'. That or some really confusing attempt at trolling.

As opposed to the argument that you are endorsing, which seems to be "we should replace the old bigotry with new bigotry, because even though bigotry is bad we have good intentions and that makes it okay, and besides doing nothing can be interpreted as supporting the old bigotry". That, or some really confused attempt at confusing your inability to frame a functional rebuttal with trolling on someone else's part.

There's also the following:

Blacks are far, far more likely to get subjected to stop and frisk type laws than whites are, even though whites are more likely to be committing a crime or have illegal substances in their possession.

And yet crime by blacks soars when stop-and-frisk is eliminated. You know, the way it is happening in NYC.
It seems the right people are in fact being stopped and frisked.

Quote
Black receive harsher sentences across the board for committing the same offenses as white.  A first time white offender normally gets probation, a black first time offender gets prison.

And women receive lighter sentences, particularly for sexual assault of children, than men. A woman having sex with a high school age teen gets probation, a man gets prison.

Of course part of the disparity is due to making the sentencing guidelines advisory rather than mandatory, which was something demanded by Democrats to end racism.

And it must be questioned as to just what judges are passing these sentences. Since most of the crime occurs in big cities which are Democratic stongholds, it would seem that it is Democratic judges that are demonstrating the most bias. This is compounded by the fact that 95% of cases never go to trial, and the sentences are essentially determined by the District Attorney's in the plea bargain, with said DA's again typically being Democrats.
Perhaps you should direct your complaints at the "progressives" in charge of those places.

Quote
Wrongful convictions that are overturned are far more likely to be those of black men as opposed to any other race.

Which would suggest that blacks are receiving more favorable attention on appeals.

Quote
Black children who misbehave in school get expelled or prosecuted in some states, or even physically restrained.  White children get detention.

Black children are also misbehaving in significantly more violent ways in schools than white children.
In states, like California, where discipline of school children has been made a racial issue, violent misbehavior is up significantly.
Meanwhile, white children get suspended for eating pop tarts in the "wrong" way.

Quote
When the sentencing laws for harsher penalties were written, crack and heroin were seen as a problem affecting blacks.  Now that whites are increasingly using them, there's a sudden movement for lessening the penalties.

If you want to go that route, when drug prohibition was begun it was done out of fear that whites were turning into addicts, and that simply could not be tolerated by "progressive" eugenics theories.
Maybe a massive revision of drug prohibition without a basis on pseudoscience is called for.

Quote
Where I live blacks were still being lynched well into the 90's, and a town north of me is such a KKK stronghold you have to be in the Klan to be a local businessman or a cop (or run for city government).


Where I live, Jews are still assassinated well into the 2000's, all too often in pogroms led by blacks under the direction of people like Al Sharpton.
Where I live, Hispanics control the politics of the county, and you have to be part of one of the their political machines to get approved for office.
Where I live, an overt communist who supported violent terrorists is Mayor, and with his black wife has perpetrated changes in law enforcement favorable to blacks, causing a dramatic surge in crime against blacks as well as whites.

Quote
You are either naive or willfully obtuse.  It's also possible you've lead a sheltered life, but being from NY I doubt that.

If you think you have any standing to lecture me on the destructive effects of racial politics you are simply woefully mistaken.

Offline MrWolfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 376
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #395 on: November 17, 2015, 04:12:50 PM »
Equal rights are not "special privileges", nor is addressing ingrained, systematic inequalities by giving a hand up to marginalized groups in an effort to balance out centuries of oppression.

Giving special privileges is giving special privileges and not giving equal rights. That is why they are called "special privileges" and not "equal rights".
You cannot correct having given special privileges to one group by giving special privileges to another group. All you do is replace on set of "ingrained, systematic inequalities" with a different set.

They aren't special privileges. They aren't even proper reparations for what has been stolen from ethnic/cultural minorities, women, etc.

A group that is benefiting from the oppression of another does not automatically lose those benefits when the oppressive policies are repealed. They retain the head start they've been given unless something is done to place both groups on a more even playing field.

Something like, say, grants and policies designed to help that previously marginalized group catch up and gain an equal foothold in areas like education and business where they were previously forbidden to participate.

Quote
Taking away the rights of others in order to appease one group's religious dogma however, is.

So you agree that taking away the rights of people to appease the dogma of atheists is wrong.
See above for how giving special privileges is not giving equal rights.

Can you show me a single instance where rights have been taken away from people to appease atheist dogma? As opposed to the special status and privileges this nation gives to certain religious groups being scaled back in order to show a modicum of fairness and inclusion to those from other faiths?

I know Christians get all up in arms when a starbucks cup fails to sufficiently pander to one their religious holidays, but that's not a right, the way--say--having the government recognize your marriage is.

Quote
There's also a load of bigoted policies the Republican party actively supports, such as the current racist mandatory minimum sentencing laws. So they're not just fighting against equality for minorities, but actively attacking their rights as well.

Are the minimum sentencing laws different based on the race of the criminal?
Or just different based on the crime?
Oh right, just based on the crime. Which means they are not actually racist.
Now what is racist is advocating that a certain group not be punished, or receive less punishment, for their crimes because of their race. That is what Democrats support.

As already mentioned, many drug laws are specifically designed to disproportionately target minorities. The minimum sentences vary by drug, and even a casual analysis shows that the harsher penalties go not to the drugs that cause the most harm, but those which are statistically favored by minorities. It's a transparent attempt to make skin color an "enhancement charge" to possession that gets you more time in prison.

When you understand what to look for, there are plenty more examples. Basically, we never ended slavery in this country--we just started calling it 'prison labor' instead.

As for all the BS you just posted Samwise, clearly "where you live" is a state of bigoted delusion. Try pulling your head out of the echo chamber and educating yourself a bit. I'm not getting paid enough to do so.
A little madness goes a long way...

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #396 on: November 17, 2015, 04:31:53 PM »
If you're making an argument, it seems to be 'we should leave everything as it is now, or rather as it was some ambiguous time in the past, and not do anything because it can be interpreted as hypocrisy'. That or some really confusing attempt at trolling.

As opposed to the argument that you are endorsing, which seems to be "we should replace the old bigotry with new bigotry, because even though bigotry is bad we have good intentions and that makes it okay, and besides doing nothing can be interpreted as supporting the old bigotry". That, or some really confused attempt at confusing your inability to frame a functional rebuttal with trolling on someone else's part.

Being unable to discern if someone's actually making a point beyond disagreeing with everything else posted in the thread, which leads to the conclusion of either wanting nothing to change because someone will disagree with it... or simply picking a fight, is not in fact endorsing any argument at all.

It would be ad hominem if I was actually supporting a point in the first place. But... I'm not.

Offline bhu

  • Uncle Kittie
  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16306
  • Fnord bitches
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #397 on: November 17, 2015, 04:44:20 PM »

And yet crime by blacks soars when stop-and-frisk is eliminated. You know, the way it is happening in NYC.
It seems the right people are in fact being stopped and frisked.

Yet the blacks who are stopped and frisked are almost always let go because they've done nothing other than 'walking while black'.   If you stop people and harass them, then let them go because they haven't done anything, why did you stop them for if not to arrest them?  Why ignore the portion of the population that you stop that does regularly commit unlawful acts? Have the crime rates really gone up, or is that s statistic being pushed by a police force that admits it relies on asset forfeiture and fines to pay for itself?

Quote
And women receive lighter sentences, particularly for sexual assault of children, than men. A woman having sex with a high school age teen gets probation, a man gets prison.
  Thats no longer the case.  After much backlash women are receiving the same sentences men are.

Quote
And it must be questioned as to just what judges are passing these sentences. Since most of the crime occurs in big cities which are Democratic stongholds, it would seem that it is Democratic judges that are demonstrating the most bias. This is compounded by the fact that 95% of cases never go to trial, and the sentences are essentially determined by the District Attorney's in the plea bargain, with said DA's again typically being Democrats.

Those Judges and prosecutors are elected, and the electorate votes for them based on the idea that they're "tough on crime".  Judges who have retired openly admit to sending innocent men to prison or giving minorities harsher sentences because that's what keeps them getting elected, in effect apologizing for being without conscience because their voters are racist assholes.  There are far, far more republican judges and prosecutors than Democrats, as statistically Dems don't actively seek positions in law enforcement in much the same way republicans don't become teachers.  Prosecutors, particularly federal ones, admit the plea bargain only exists to get a conviction on something so there aren't any failures on their record.  They aren't there to allow leniency for the accused, they exist to ensure they plead guilty to some form of lesser charge while being threatened with much harsher penalties if they dont.

Quote
Which would suggest that blacks are receiving more favorable attention on appeals.
  Or it factually suggests that on appeal the prosecutors case falls apart because it's revealed they fixed the trial because they needed to find someone to blame to satisfy the public, or they had no evidence, or deliberately ignored evidence that proved the accused innocent of the crime.  Which is what has happened in nearly every single case.

Quote
Black children are also misbehaving in significantly more violent ways in schools than white children.
In states, like California, where discipline of school children has been made a racial issue, violent misbehavior is up significantly.
Meanwhile, white children get suspended for eating pop tarts in the "wrong" way.
  Then you've never visited the midwest.  White kids are far more likely to be violent here, not only because they're more common, but because they realize they don't face much in the way of repercussion because "they're just kids acting out."  Yet if a black child acts out in the same manner he's prosecuted.  Unless he's on the football team, because apparently football trumps everything.

Quote
When the sentencing laws for harsher penalties were written, crack and heroin were seen as a problem affecting blacks.  Now that whites are increasingly using them, there's a sudden movement for lessening the penalties.

Quote
Maybe a massive revision of drug prohibition without a basis on pseudoscience is called for.
  You would have to remove almost all Republicans from office to pursue that.


Quote
If you think you have any standing to lecture me on the destructive effects of racial politics you are simply woefully mistaken.

I'm not mistaken, I just suffer from the perception that despite being the victim of racial politics, you're incapable of perceiving it affecting anyone not of your own ethnic persuasion.  If you've taken shit for being Jewish no one should have to explain to you why people of other minorities get shat on as well.

Offline Samwise

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #398 on: November 17, 2015, 04:45:25 PM »
They aren't special privileges. They aren't even proper reparations for what has been stolen from ethnic/cultural minorities, women, etc.

Well yeah they are special privileges.
As for what had been stolen, that was from others, not from any of the people currently demanding "reparations".

Quote
A group that is benefiting from the oppression of another does not automatically lose those benefits when the oppressive policies are repealed. They retain the head start they've been given unless something is done to place both groups on a more even playing field.

Something like, say, grants and policies designed to help that previously marginalized group catch up and gain an equal foothold in areas like education and business where they were previously forbidden to participate.

So then . . . special privileges.

Quote
Can you show me a single instance where rights have been taken away from people to appease atheist dogma? As opposed to the special status and privileges this nation gives to certain religious groups being scaled back in order to show a modicum of fairness and inclusion to those from other faiths?

You mean like demanding crosses be removed from memorials because Atheists feel butthurt by them?

Quote
As already mentioned, many drug laws are specifically designed to disproportionately target minorities. The minimum sentences vary by drug, and even a casual analysis shows that the harsher penalties go not to the drugs that cause the most harm, but those which are statistically favored by minorities. It's a transparent attempt to make skin color an "enhancement charge" to possession that gets you more time in prison.

As I mentioned, drug laws were specifically designed to promote eugenics, a thoroughly "progressive" principle.
But how about we go deeper than that and talk about how blacks, and many Hispanics, have made drug dealing an iconic element of their culture. Maybe if as much energy was spent on ostracizing crack dealers as whining about crack dealers getting sent to prison there would be no problem with crack to begin with.

Quote
When you understand what to look for, there are plenty more examples. Basically, we never ended slavery in this country--we just started calling it 'prison labor' instead.

And now complaining about punishment for crimes in general.
Look, if you don't care when you get mugged and beaten by your local Crips or Bloods then just don't file a police report. Those that do expect the perpetrators to actually be punished, and not to be chastised for daring to complain about being attacked by thugs.

Quote
As for all the BS you just posted Samwise, clearly "where you live" is a state of bigoted delusion. Try pulling your head out of the echo chamber and educating yourself a bit. I'm not getting paid enough to do so.

Says the person who denies wanting special privileges then makes a list of demands for said special privileges and follows up by getting bent out of shape at someone objecting. I'd recommend you educate yourself but you make it quite clear that you are in complete denial over the bigotry you advocate. Fortunately I learned that one does not need to be paid to have a reason to stand up against injustice like that.

Offline Samwise

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v2
« Reply #399 on: November 17, 2015, 05:14:04 PM »
Yet the blacks who are stopped and frisked are almost always let go because they've done nothing other than 'walking while black'.   If you stop people and harass them, then let them go because they haven't done anything, why did you stop them for if not to arrest them?  Why ignore the portion of the population that you stop that does regularly commit unlawful acts? Have the crime rates really gone up, or is that s statistic being pushed by a police force that admits it relies on asset forfeiture and fines to pay for itself?

Stop and frisk by its nature is a program that will "catch" more innocent people than guilty people.
The black people stopped have done something that triggers suspicion above and beyond simply being of a particular race. If it were so exclusively based on race then no white people, or at least no innocent white people, were ever stopped.
As for the deeper issues involved with stop-and-frisk, or any "Broken Windows" policing in general, that would require a separate thread to discuss.
Yes, the crime rates really have gone up in NYC.
As for relying on asset forfeiture and general fines to pay for government, yet again that would require its own thread to discuss.

Quote
Thats no longer the case.  After much backlash women are receiving the same sentences men are.

Since when?
Seriously, since when?
I see reports of women let off on a constant basis.

Quote
Those Judges and prosecutors are elected, and the electorate votes for them based on the idea that they're "tough on crime".

Who is being naïve now?
They are elected based on political party, and selected for election based on patronage with the local political machine.
"Tough on crime" is a campaign slogan/lie, nothing more.

Quote
There are far, far more republican judges and prosecutors than Democrats, as statistically Dems don't actively seek positions in law enforcement in much the same way republicans don't become teachers.
 

Once again you delve into extreme naiveté. Republicans don't become teachers because they are excluded by openly admitted bias in colleges. There are always Democrats willing to run as judges and prosecutors, and even more willing to accept appointments as judges and prosecutors by Democrat executives. Or are you going to somehow suggest that Obama has nominated nothing but Republicans to such positions?

Quote
Prosecutors, particularly federal ones, admit the plea bargain only exists to get a conviction on something so there aren't any failures on their record.  They aren't there to allow leniency for the accused, they exist to ensure they plead guilty to some form of lesser charge while being threatened with much harsher penalties if they dont.

I never suggested otherwise.
And so we are left with Democratic DAs making such deals and Democratic judges approving them.

Quote
Or it factually suggests that on appeal the prosecutors case falls apart because it's revealed they fixed the trial because they needed to find someone to blame to satisfy the public, or they had no evidence, or deliberately ignored evidence that proved the accused innocent of the crime.  Which is what has happened in nearly every single case.

You mean like with Mike Nifong, Democratic DA in the Duke Lacross Rape Case?
Yeah, terrible how things like that happen.

Quote
Then you've never visited the midwest.  White kids are far more likely to be violent here, not only because they're more common, but because they realize they don't face much in the way of repercussion because "they're just kids acting out."  Yet if a black child acts out in the same manner he's prosecuted.  Unless he's on the football team, because apparently football trumps everything.

So the Midwest experience trumps every other experience?
I take it you have you ever heard the principle that "anecdotes are not data". Perhaps you should investigate that, and not insist that just because you experienced something unpleasant it constitutes a universal condition that everyone must acknowledge.

Quote
You would have to remove almost all Republicans from office to pursue that.

You would have to remove a greater percentage of Democrats from office to achieve it.

Quote
I'm not mistaken, I just suffer from the perception that despite being the victim of racial politics, you're incapable of perceiving it affecting anyone not of your own ethnic persuasion.  If you've taken shit for being Jewish no one should have to explain to you why people of other minorities get shat on as well.

Your perception is mistaken. That or you suffer from projecting your failure of empathy onto me.
I am quite aware that my experience is in no way unique, unlike people who seem to think that "ghetto" was a word created for a place to store black people. That I take a longer and broader view of the "solutions" proposed and note that they are nothing but the new (bigoted) boss, same as the old (bigoted) boss is a sign that I understand such things all too well, and don't see how oppressing someone else will somehow salve any oppression I have suffered.