Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!

[Amechra]

Ever notice that none of the size categories start with the same letter?

I like that.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

Well if you disclude Colossal and Colossal+ anyways, but the latter is kind of a pseudo size if I remember correctly

[SorO_Lost]

Well if you disclude Colossal and Colossal+ anyways, but the latter is kind of a pseudo size if I remember correctly

Pretty much.

Per the 3.5 update, and even the RC, there are nine official Size Categories. Colossal+ is like a Size-orientated buff, like how a Bard can grant extra HD that's totally not Hit Dice or Epic BAB increases your BAB but not your number of attacks. C+ offers all the bonuses of increasing your Size minus the actual change in Size, your bodily dimensions remain the same but everything else is increased as normal, including Reach.

It's also important to remember that Weapon Sizes are keyed to the intended user rather than the actual Size of the weapon. Like you can craft a Colossal++ Dagger and it can be used as a Two-Handed Weapon by any Colossal Creature with a -4 penalty to Attack rolls. Theoretically there really isn't a limit even through there appears to be a hard cap on how large a creature can actually be.

[Tonymitsu]

You can pinpoint an invisible creature by beating the Listen DC by 20. The DC is 0 for an invisible creature talking or in combat, so hitting a mere 20 on your Listen check can be really helpful against Improved Invisibility.

I'm not sure it's quite that simple.

Creatures are entitled to make a Move Silently check any time they please. Per the skill description, it's part of their movement or whatever other action they might be taking.

At that point, can you really make the argument that a creature with Improved Invisibility is "in combat", even if detected, if all he is doing is trying to be sneaky and is not actively threatening anyone?

[awaken_D_M_golem]

I recall 3.0e size categories for weapons,
to be effectively un-capped.  By now, where
I got that idea, has drifted off into my kitty avatar's past life(s).

There's just a little bit too much Collosal++ fire out there
for the constant bubbling up, to be nothing.
Conceptually, it should work no problems.


I did find this reference at giantitp :

Runestar - Elder evils has the leviathan.
1 version is 50-ft space, with 20ft reach.
The 2nd advanced version is 60-ft space, but still 20ft reach.
Natural weapon damage and physical stats seem to have been improved arbitrarily (eg: its slam damage improves from 4d6 to 5d6, but tail slap remains unchanged).
Str and con increased by +4, NA by +10. Again, no apparent link.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9982956&postcount=8

I can't confirm. No access to Elder Evils.
It doesn't look to me like an actual Size Category,
it does represent something rather close to that.

idk 

[Tonymitsu]

The primary entry for the Aspect of the Leviathan is a CR 16. The advanced version is a CR 20 and is described as part of a specific encounter. The stats are as he describes.
There is no entry for Advancement in either table.

It seems that they simply increased it's HD by 9 (33 to 42) and increased it's BAB also by 9 (24 to 31), but given that it has Aberration hit dice, the math on the BAB still works out: 3/4 of 33  is 24.75, and 42 is 31.5, which rounds down appropriately. 9 HD only account for two stat point increases, and I'd have to extrapolate the skills to be sure, but I think his instinct is right. They just increased it by whatever amount seemed good.

[SorO_Lost]

I did find this reference at giantitp :

Everything from GitP needs to be scrutinized  and you can argue about it all day if you like. But the basic fact is D&D just really doesn't cover the idea of a creature being over 100ft tall (or w/e colossal caps at) much like D&D's rules don't cover space exploration and life on other planets or various other concepts. There are loopholes that force questions on such an area but no answers.

[deadkitten]

Special Spell Effects
Many special spell effects are handled according to the school of the spells in question Certain other special spell features are found across spell schools.
Attacks
Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.

This came up in a thread on 3rd party pathfinder products but the wording is the same in 3.5.

Does this sentence cause spells to interact strangely with aspects of the game?

[SorO_Lost]

This came up in a thread on 3rd party pathfinder products but the wording is the same in 3.5.

Seeing how some Spells are literally tagged harmless in D&D, I'm going to need a citation on your claim that it's in D&D before being convinced that Haste is a harmful attack.

[Garryl]

This came up in a thread on 3rd party pathfinder products but the wording is the same in 3.5.

Seeing how some Spells are literally tagged harmless in D&D, I'm going to need a citation on your claim that it's in D&D before being convinced that Haste is a harmful attack.

Deadkitten's quote was from the 3.5 SRD.

Fun fact: You can tell it's from the 3.5 SRD and not the PF SRD because the PF version fixed the missing period in the first paragraph (but is otherwise word for word the same).

[SorO_Lost]

When people tend to bring up wording errors I hit the RC (which doesn't say that) and the PHB.

Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. For instance, invisibility is dispelled if you attack anyone or anything while under its effects. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents (such as disarm and bull rush) are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies / Summon monster I and similar spells are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.

And the PHB's tone pushes it's specifically talking about spell descriptions rather than a general rule of what is or isn't an attack.

The SRD does this too since they both start off with the same sentence but it's not as readily apparent and easily missed on a quick skim.

[deadkitten]

When people tend to bring up wording errors I hit the RC (which doesn't say that) and the PHB.

Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. For instance, invisibility is dispelled if you attack anyone or anything while under its effects. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents (such as disarm and bull rush) are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies / Summon monster I and similar spells are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.

And the PHB's tone pushes it's specifically talking about spell descriptions rather than a general rule of what is or isn't an attack.

The SRD does this too since they both start off with the same sentence but it's not as readily apparent and easily missed on a quick skim.

Alrighty, no problem with me on that one. I admit to a quick skim on this one. I was out and about on business when I viewed the original thread that brought this to my attention. I messaged a buddy who had the  updated collectors edition of the players handbook and he checked and said the wording was the same.

So I posted it in the fun finds cause I thought that the discussion would be interesting.

[Amechra]

Oh, damn it, I see where the problem is: I done fucked up.

The fixed version:

0. Have 3 levels of Warforged Juggernaut.
1. Take a Brutal Surge weapon. (It's a +1 equivalent - you've got room.)
2. Charge; you apply your bonus damage from Powerful Charge.
3. Activate Brutal Surge to get a Bull Rush as part of the attack.
4. You get your bonus damage from Superior Bull Rush. Because the Bull Rush is part of a charge, you get to apply Powerful Charge's bonus damage to the bonus damage from Superior Bull Rush.
5. ???
6. Profit.

As for the damage:

1d8 + 2d6 + Str: [Armor Spikes 1d8] + [Powerful Charge 2d6] + Str.
12d6 + Str: [Armor Spikes 6d6] + [Powerful Charge 6d6] + Str.


I hope that clears everything up.

There's actually an easier way to trigger this if you've got a feat to burn: Pushback. It's one/round and explicitly can't be used for stuff like Dungeoncrasher, but it's a decent damage bonus 1/round that you pretty much automatically meet the requirements for, so...

[Amechra]

Here's a fun one:
1. Take Wolfpack
2. Give a trained housecat Gloves of Man and a teeny-tiny Reach weapon so it has 5ft reach.
3. Let Kitty sit on your shoulders.
4. Kitty uses Aid Another on you, so you can use Drive Back.
5. Bull Rush, with a bonus equal to the damage you rolled.
6. ???
7. Cake party.

Sadly, there's a cap on how large something you Bull Rush can be, otherwise I'd say that smacking the Tarrasque flying because Mr. Kitty is a helper is hilarious.

[linklord231]

Drive Back also has a 5' limit regardless of your Bull Rush results, so you couldn't sent him flying back.  Still, it's funny.

[Amechra]

Drive Back also has a 5' limit regardless of your Bull Rush results, so you couldn't sent him flying back.  Still, it's funny.

Dang it - forgive lack of reading skills.

Sleepy.

[Amechra]

Celebration is hilarious.

Too bad it requires that the creature fails three Will saves to suffer the full effects. Still, it basically goes minor penalty to Save or Suck to Save or Die.


Fugue is also interesting due to the school. If you can consistently beat a Perform DC of 40 (you're at least 10th level; of course you can), you get a freaking Swiss army knife of battlefield control options. A Fell Drain Fugue and a DC of 15 lets you smack targets of your choice with a negative level each round.

Oh, and of course it only allows one save and isn't Mind-Affecting. The only way to be immune is to be deaf.


EDIT: Incite + Inhibit can potentially reshuffle the whole initiative order, especially if you .

Hell, pull the Scandal Luigi trick - drop a Chain Inhibit on the party. Now the entire party goes on the initiative count before yours.

Not terribly useful? How about:

Initiative A: You go. You use Chain Inhibit on all of your party members but one.
...
Initiative B: The buddy you didn't Inhibit uses White Raven Tactics. You act again on Initiative Count B-1. More usefully, the people you Inhibited now have their Initiative count set to B and stop delaying.
Initiative B-1: You act.

If you and the guy with White Raven Tactics pump initiative, you can basically move your entire party to the front of the turn order. Rocket tag may then ensue.

[SorO_Lost]

That edit is nice, and it has a synergy with a Bard/Crusader.

[Amechra]

The best part? If you've got some way to cast Incite and Inhibit on the same turn, and optimize your initiative...

You've got true Scandal Luigi (OK, that and if your buddies can slaughter everyone before they get to move).

Another fun trick is having two Bards cast Inhibit one after another:

Bard A uses Inhibit! Enemy Delays until initiative A+1 next turn!
Bard B uses Inhibit! Enemy Delays until Initiative B+1 next turn!
Bard A uses Inhibit! Enemy Delays until initiative A+1 next turn!
...

It's especially nasty since Delaying by (SRD) RAW prevents you from taking any actions.

[Quillwraith]

And Inhibit's only a first level - find a good way to boost the DC and you could have a pair of minions cast it.

Fugue is some really impressive BFC. I can't find anything in Complete Mage or Arcane that applies to evocations and seems useful here, but I bet there's some way to take advantage of the fact that it's not an enchantment.