Solid Build (Not Broken) V2.0 Sorcerer type

[Kikkenass]

Hey Guys,

I am in need of assistance in building a solid combat character who can blow stuff up but also serves as a good support character

We are currently playing in a Forgotten Realms setting.My party has been decimated and half of us are starting new characters. The surviving characters are Wizard/Blood Mage and Cleric and Druid. We have a Paladin currently but he is going to retire that character and bring in something new (possibly a Bard) The characters that died were Swift Hunter (mine) Half-Giant Fighter (DM Run NPC) and Raptorian Fighter (Ranged).

What D&D books you can use? PHB, PHB II. DMG, DMG II, Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane, Complete Champion, Complete Divine, Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, Complete Warrior, Complete Psionic (Non Psionic Feats only), Magic Item Compendium, Miniatures Handbook, Races of Destiny, Races of Stone, Races of the Dragon, Races of the Wild, Spell Compendium, Player's Guide to Faerûn

What type of character you want it to be? I am looking to make a Sorcerer (Or any variant of) I want to really serve as a crippling force against our opponents and to help support the group with buffs and damage. I would like to limit the character to a single class or no more than 2 classes if possible.

What levels will this character be played at? My character would be level 13 with intent to go to epic levels.

Any house rules or particular details about your DM or the other characters in the game? There are a few house rules Psionics are not allowed, Repeatable trip attacks are not allowed. Flaws are not allowed. Since there is a druid in the group currently we cannot have a second druid. No Undying Barbarians, No Psionics and No Broken Characters (The DM made sure my Swift hunter can never come back again)
 
What specifically you are looking for help with? I want to really serve as a crippling force against our opponents and to help support the group with buffs and damage. I don't want to create a broken character, I do however want to make a character who is "Solid"

Since my swift hunter was also our utility character I don't want to leave the party without any means of dealing with traps and locks and what not. So I am willing to sacrifice "some" things to make sure that I am a good utility character if possible

My DM is not the Monty Hall type who just gives us free reign on magic items. Most have to be either acquired via structured shop inventory or "ordered" and delivered at a later date.

Since I will be building this character straight to Level 13 to start I will have 88k gold to spend and he utilized the rule that no starting character can spend more than 25% of their starting gold on a single item (which equals 22000 gp iirc)

I have already rolled out the stats and did extremely well

Level 1 attributes came out to be, 17 13 12 17 16 18. I will have two ability points to add to this as I level up the character as well.

I wanted to build a different character that would be more balanced and solid in both the areas of combat and skills so I am open to suggestions.


Thanks in advance for all your help.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Solo's Sorc guide is a good starting place.

Sorc 20+ is Tier 2, and if you're paying more attention
to your build, it'll be as good as the Cleric Druid + Wiz.

Rogue 1 / Sorc 19+ is a standard > party skill+face build.
Rogue 1 could be Martial Rogue 1 or really any class with
Trapfinding at level 1.  Still go to Solo's guide, still Tier 2.
Picking spells is still where it's at.

Martial Rogue 2 / Battle Sorc 8 / Eldritch Knight prc 10 / Sorc +X
might just pull it down to Tier 3, not out-shining the other full casters
if you're aware you're pulling your relative punches a bit.
Supposing this is where the party is anyway, it works great.

Considering your other post, Fighter 2 subbing in
for the above build, would be an OK Tier 3 combat
some of the time, casting most of the time, build.
Again it's about picking the spells, and going
buff me 1/3rd , buff party 1/3rd , "W"in spells 1/3rd.

[stanprollyright]

Beguiler could work.  Full spontaneous casting, lots of skills.  Maybe go into Shadowcraft Mage?

[Kikkenass]

Solo's Sorc guide is a good starting place.

Sorc 20+ is Tier 2, and if you're paying more attention
to your build, it'll be as good as the Cleric Druid + Wiz.

Rogue 1 / Sorc 19+ is a standard > party skill+face build.
Rogue 1 could be Martial Rogue 1 or really any class with
Trapfinding at level 1.  Still go to Solo's guide, still Tier 2.
Picking spells is still where it's at.

Martial Rogue 2 / Battle Sorc 8 / Eldritch Knight prc 10 / Sorc +X
might just pull it down to Tier 3, not out-shining the other full casters
if you're aware you're pulling your relative punches a bit.
Supposing this is where the party is anyway, it works great.

Considering your other post, Fighter 2 subbing in
for the above build, would be an OK Tier 3 combat
some of the time, casting most of the time, build.
Again it's about picking the spells, and going
buff me 1/3rd , buff party 1/3rd , "W"in spells 1/3rd.

Solo's guide has been an entertaining read and may very well serve as my build structure.

Is Rogue 1 Sorc 11 still going to be the best way to go if I want to stick to 2 classes?

Is there a Sorc X / PRC X that would be better?

I am really open to suggestions.

What about Spellwarp Sniper? Is that doable?

[Kikkenass]

Beguiler could work.  Full spontaneous casting, lots of skills.  Maybe go into Shadowcraft Mage?

This would be my first Sorcerer build. So How would this build look? I really am a noob on this class so please feel free to explain in as much detail as you want. I really appreciate it.

[stanprollyright]

Beguiler is a base class in the PHB 2.  They're very similar to a Sorcerer who specializes in illusions and enchantments, plus trapfinding and 6+casting stat skills/level.

Beguiler Handbook

[Kikkenass]

Beguiler is a base class in the PHB 2.  They're very similar to a Sorcerer who specializes in illusions and enchantments, plus trapfinding and 6+casting stat skills/level.

Beguiler Handbook

Thank you very much for that link. That class looks super fun and if I didn't have a paladin (just found out he isn't retiring the character after all) in the group I would have no issues making a Beguiler.

Are there any others that you can suggest? I was looking at the Spellscale Sorcerer from Races of the Dragon. It looks fun but also looks like a huge pain to RP. My DM enjoys a good RP character but he doesn't like complicated. Its one of the reasons I wanted to go with just Two classes at most. Rogue 1/Sorcerer 12 might work so I can get the skill points and deal with traps and what not. Or is just a 13 Sorcerer going to be better?

Thanks

[Nifft]

Thank you very much for that link. That class looks super fun and if I didn't have a paladin (just found out he isn't retiring the character after all) in the group I would have no issues making a Beguiler.

Why would a Paladin in the party be anti-Beguiler? You're not required to be Evil or anything, and LG is a legal and valid Beguiler alignment.

I mean, there are plenty of reasons to be a Sorcerer instead of a Beguiler, but if you're looking to fill in for a Rogue and a Sorcerer then Beguiler is a neat compromise.

Rogue 1/Sorcerer 12 might work so I can get the skill points and deal with traps and what not. Or is just a 13 Sorcerer going to be better?

Sorc 13 is just going to be better unless you do something like...
Rogue 1 / Sorc 4 / Unseen Seer 8 - Human for Able Learner feat.

[Solo]

I have some builds you should look at for guidance.

1
2
3

[phaedrusxy]

Sorc 13 is just going to be better unless you do something like...
Rogue 1 / Sorc 4 / Unseen Seer 8 - Human for Able Learner feat.

You're so much better off just going with wizard here that it isn't funny. You're starving for skill points, and having Int be your main stat goes a very long way towards solving that problem. You can get the abilty to cast quite a few of your spells spontaneously as a wizard, if that's the main draw of sorcerer. You'll also be ahead one spell level half the time as a wizard (unless you go for kobold cheese).

I've played rogue-ish wizards in the past, and really, really enjoy them. Here is one such build. The plan was to get Incantatrix 3 for Persistent Spell cheese (aided by the Item Familiar feat), then progress in Unseen Seer for skills, sneak attack dice, and the ability to cherry-pick divination spells (particularly Hunter's Eye, which can be persisted for tons more sneak attack dice...).

[faeryn]

The build I enjoyed the most in a past campaign was a Spellthief/Wizard/Archivist... Alternating between Buffing, Blasting, and Sneak Attacking a the situation called for it... Was pretty much a jack of all trades type of build... given the fact that the majority of our players kept not showing up we needed a character like that...

The build was

Spellthief 2/Wizard 3/Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge X/Bladesinger 1/Sacred Exorcist 1

Feats:
Master Spellthief
Craven
Darkstalker
Divine Metamagic (Persist)

Items:
Rogues Blade
Ring of the Darkhidden
(Anything that grants bonus SA dice)

Spells:
Hunter's Eye (scribed via Archivist)
Divine Power (Archivist)
Improved Mage Armor (Wizard)

Load up the rest of your spells with whatever you want... and since both Wizard & Archivist use spellbooks you've got practically every spell in the book to choose from... utilize spellthief to fuel extra spell casting and cripple enemy casters by stealing their spells. You'll only get to 7th level spells unless you go into Epic Levels...

The build can work without being a dual caster but it loses out in a lot of power in one aspect or another if doing so... Without Wizard it doesn't progress the Spell Steal ability past 2nd level spellthief and can't learn Improved Mage Armor... without Archivist it loses  the large bonus to SA from Hunter's Eye and full BAB from Divine Power... but it gains the potential for 9th level spells...

Other prCs can be worked in as well... In the campaign I played in we went into Epic Levels and I was a Changeling Wizard with Master Specialist and was planning to build Shadowcraft Mage & Shadowcrafter but the campaign came to an early end.

[Nifft]

You're so much better off just going with wizard here that it isn't funny.

That is a generally true statement.

It's not really applicable to this thread, which is about builds for a Sorcerer, but it is generally true that being a Wizard is better than being a Sorcerer.

[faeryn]

A player in my DnD group found the Warmage to be pretty fun and a fairly decent Blaster... Though you may need to learn some non-class spells via feats and prCs to help it out...

If you want to do buffing & Blasting, then you will certainly want to find a secondary source of spells...

Perhaps try:

Warmage X/Wizard X/Ultimate Magus 10

Focusing mainly on Warmage and using Wizard to gain access to buffs...

[phaedrusxy]

You're so much better off just going with wizard here that it isn't funny.

That is a generally true statement.

It's not really applicable to this thread, which is about builds for a Sorcerer, but it is generally true that being a Wizard is better than being a Sorcerer.

It is even more true if you're trying to make a mage who also relies a lot on skills, though. I've tried both, and it is just about impossible to do with a sorcerer, due to the fact that you can't really afford to have a good Int and your skill points will suck.

[Nifft]

It is even more true if you're trying to make a mage who also relies a lot on skills, though. I've tried both, and it is just about impossible to do with a sorcerer, due to the fact that you can't really afford to have a good Int and your skill points will suck.

Gotcha.

Your DM's point buy is low, therefore everyone's point buy is always low.

Also, your DM does not allow any alternate class features which can give a Sorc any benefit from high Int, therefore stuff like Metamagic Specialist (from PHB2) is irrelevant.

Finally, you like talking about Wizards more than Sorcerers, therefore staying on-topic is not important because who would want to talk about Sorcerers, right? Not you. Therefore, nobody important.

[Solo]

Finally, you like talking about Wizards more than Sorcerers, therefore staying on-topic is not important because who would want to talk about Sorcerers, right? Not you. Therefore, nobody important.

How dare you, sir. I shall not brook this insult! I hereby challenge you to a duel; the time and place are your's to decide.

I say good day, sir!

[Nifft]

How dare you, sir. I shall not brook this insult! I hereby challenge you to a duel; the time and place are your's to decide.

I say good day, sir!

Huh, I was trying to mock someone totally different.

Oh well, I guess now we have to duel.

Uh... place shall be in my timeless demi-plane, time shall be at forever o-clock.

[muktidata]

Nifty,

"Sorceror-type" =/= Sorceror Class

Point Buy was never mentioned, but if you were paying attention in class you'd notice that he rolled some killer stats that still don't generally salvage the MADness that would be a skill monkey+trapfinding single/dual-class sorceror.

The OP has clearly demonstrated they don't really know what's going on (basing this on comments from their last thread).

It's generally a good idea to explain how against the grain someone is going when they don't really know what's going on. Generally this is annoying to people who understand CharOp, but that is not the case here.

HOWEVER, the OP can now experience what it's like to have idiots argue with each other in his/her thread.

[Nifft]

Nifty,

"Sorceror-type" =/= Sorceror Class

Wizards are not even close to "Sorcerer-type", so discussing them isn't going to be on-topic for this thread.

Or are you trying to criticize me for talking about Beguilers? But you would seem to be supporting that.

Point Buy was never mentioned, but if you were paying attention in class you'd notice that he rolled some killer stats

Yeah, that's why I suggested a build which leveraged a high Int.

The person who was apparently ignorant of the killer stats was not me, but rather the person who said this:

(...) due to the fact that you can't really afford to have a good Int (...)

So yeah, feel free to rain down scorn on that person, but you're aiming poorly if you were trying to tar me with that brush.

The OP has clearly demonstrated they don't really know what's going on (basing this on comments from their last thread).

It's generally a good idea to explain how against the grain someone is going when they don't really know what's going on. Generally this is annoying to people who understand CharOp, but that is not the case here.

Feel free to address the OP's misconceptions INSTEAD of taking issue with my attempt to help the OP salvage this character.

You're not really arguing with me so far. Your tone is critical, but every point you make either supports my points, or applies to the arguments of someone else.

[phaedrusxy]

Nifty,

"Sorceror-type" =/= Sorceror Class

Wizards are not even close to "Sorcerer-type", so discussing them isn't going to be on-topic for this thread.

Or are you trying to criticize me for talking about Beguilers? But you would seem to be supporting that.

lol, what? They at least have the same spell list!

OK... the OP asked about sorcerers. You suggested a different class, then jumped all over me for suggesting yet another class? 

I'm done here... I said more than my piece. Until the OP chimes back in, we have no way of knowing just how married to the idea of a sorcerer he/she is, or if he just wants someone who casts arcane spells and is a skillmonkey.