No I didn't and if you read either my text or the rules you know that, but there you go changing the message to suit your needs again. It comes from the Polymorph Subschool and unless Shapechange overrides, and none-unique / average are refinements of each other, the text stands. Unless of course you whine about how it should be ignored, but same difference.
I can certainly give it a shot. The polymorph subschool specifies that your statistics and special abilities are defined by the average case of a monster. What Su abilities the zodar has would be defined by the average case, as given by the phrase special abilities, but the quantity of wishes on a given zodar is neither a special ability nor a statistic in the traditional sense. I suppose one could take a broader reading of statistic, but the term definitely does tend to refer to stuff like ability scores.
Really nowhere my self, Reserves of Strength is a sort of tangent since both Classes can take it. Just preemptively answering your question . And yeah Shapechange > Alter Self, but it's one example of how RoS changes the game, you don't have to wait for Polymorph to exceed 5HD or Shapechange to exceed 15 HD.
Fair enough. I'm sure it can do some cool cleric stuff, as well as some cool druid stuff.
I don't think you cant start off with that, requiring a 9th level build just to take the Feats you've just brought up (wild shape & shepard both have prerequisites), and end with this.
Just because 55% of it's level selection & 43% of it's Feat selection is still vague doesn't mean it's undefined, through I'm already in one language debate with you already >.>
I just meant that it's not currently defined beyond that point, and doesn't strictly need to be defined beyond that point. Obviously the already existing build definition is something I'm making liberal use of, and something that self evidently exists.
Not the game breaking lose your abilities for stepping on a flower point you may think he does. But the Cleric can choose Chaotic Neutral Stupid and pretty much get away with everything outside of meaning to follow all his vows. But if the Druid wants to make usage of Control Temperature they have to justify why they are disrespecting the natural order of the world and "because they want to" can never be a valid answer.
Is that a thing you have to justify? You draw your power from nature, and you have the powers of nature, but I don't think that strictly means that you must let nature take its own course without some big reason otherwise. Your whole shtick is altering nature in various ways.
But if a Druid picks up a ceramic mug of coffee or a fancy pewter cup of wine for a drink, he just violated the intent of his Proficiency entry and depending on the dickery to be had lost his abilities for 24 hours. It is a line in the sand, but there is never the less a line.
I don't think there's much logic to trying to glean some extra intent to a code as specific as that one is. You're not sneaking around anything by doing the things that are clearly and obviously allowed by the code. Or, to consider it from a different perspective, if I got someone to sign a contract saying that they wouldn't use metal armor, I wouldn't even look at them askance for using a metal weapon, or picking up a ceramic cup, or even wearing plastic armor. I'd just be like, "Yep, that's a thing you can do." If nature wants me to follow a really exacting and potent code it should have given me an exacting and potent code.
Cleric: Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, Divine Favor, Soul Boon
Other lists: Combat Readiness, Suffer the Flesh
That's just a few that spring to mind. It's really Suffer the Flesh that stands out in the game I'm in due to it being allowed.
Those do seem quite good, especially suffer, but I'm just not sure even that scale of numerical potency compares to extra actions or magic immunity or other crazy abilities.
Back on subject, how are you guys getting Choose Destiny on your druids? Or do we not care about that spell?
I mean, we could, through contemplative or something, but it doesn't seem like a thing I'd do. I'd probably just prep some alter fortunes instead. Not as good, but the spell level is low enough to make up for the possibility of multiple needed preparations. Besides, whether the cleric is getting DMM or not, the druid is probably not, so it has relatively low utility for the druid. Not none, but not that much more than what alter fortune gives.
Fixed that for you.
I actually think that comparison looks pretty similar to the druid versus cleric comparison. Druids are better early, because them class features are so good (especially in core, where they can't be replicated), and wizards are better later, when spells gain in importance.
Only Druid Spell Spell increases Initiative is Primal Instinct and Clerics get Sign. Now there ultimately are pros & cons to Sign that makes it better or worse than Primal Instinct. Like Sign is available at level one instead of level five and it stacks with anything, including the ever useful Belt of Battle, but it's duration is much shorter (10*clmins) than Instinct but while one can be called subjectively better you cannot deny the fact the other has one as well.
Actually, primal instinct is 3rd level. Really great combo with a lesser rod of extend spell.
However, I thought at some point someone wanted to be a Dire Turtle which I believe has a negative Dexterity Bonus so I guess I should handle your post as if you didn't just try passing an ominous multi-form Wild Shape
Nah, see, dire tortoise is your late game form, when you get to 15th level wild shape (either through items or just having that level). Before that, you're often a desmodu hunting bat, which gives a huge initiative bonus. Of course, both forms can fall by the wayside with a form adding feat, and at that point you can sometimes be on the losing side of the initiative fight. You usually get things good enough to make up for it though. To be clear here, there is an element of schrodinger's form when working with aberration wild shape, but that's more due to the need for the long casting time enhance wild shape and the wide variety of forms than anything. Other wild shape modes usually lack that problem, because the big defensive forms tend to directly supplant weaker ones, and you can often get all of the benefits of another form as a swift action with a mantle of the beast. Probably not the plan with the dire tortoise/bat thing, but it could easily be the plan if you start defensive and want to go aggressive.
