Author Topic: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else  (Read 5204 times)

Offline Endarire

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
  • Smile! Jesus loves you!
    • View Profile
    • Greg Campbell's Portfolio
Intro
Greetings, all!

I'm currently in a campaign where the Fun, Powerful Sorcerer homebrew class is allowed.  The short answer is that, once I reach a high enough level (as I'm presently only level 1), I'll be able to use the spells celerity (Player's Handbook II) and arcane fusion/greater arcane fusion (Complete Mage) and the feat Quicken Spell - all with the goal of getting more spells per round.  Action economy advantage, in short.

(Yes, this homebrew Sorcerer fix can use Quickened spells.  Metamagic specifically does not increase casting time.  This is contrary to the normal 3.5 PHB and SRD rules.  I know that.)

My Current Campaign
My character is an Aasimar Sorcerer (starting at ECL1) on a mission from the Upper Planes to observe this Material Plane and determine which parts of it are worthy of saving and judgment.

The campaign is done in a "Living Greyhawk" style with a variety of characters and GMs.  Party members are subtly encouraged to stay together, but not required.  GMs adhere to a common set of rules, and discuss things among themselves if there are any questions.  (This is not actually Living Greyhawk or RPGA material.)

The allowed sources are all first party 3.5 material, as well as "Dragon" magazine.  Homebrew is scrutinized more heavily, but is considered.  The GM can veto or permit anything, though.

The characters and players determine what sort of campaign they're most interested in.  My party (a heavily templated Goliath Fighter of Lolth and my Aasimar Sorcerer) left the slums of a major city due to being solicited for assassination, went to the guards, and told them what happened.  They're hunting animals and such in a nearby forest for food, parts, and pets.  And EXP.  We each have goals of exploring the world and enjoying life along the way - for different ends.

Action Economy Enhancers
Celerity is most famous for being the "I act out of turn and I win if I can survive the Daze effect afterward" spell.  It's also a way to burn through level 4 spell slots quickly to get these extra actions.  Celerity was super powerful when I ran it strictly as a swift action - so much so that I banned it from the campaign because I was GMing.  The rest of the players were OK with this.  Since I'm not GMing right now, I ask for y'all's advice.

Arcane fusion and its greater version are kinda like WotC saying, "Sorry Sorcerers!  You can sorta Quicken after all!  Let's just make it specific to these circumstances."  Assuming I'm not using Sanctum Spell for arcane fusion loops (because that's just abusive right now), how does this compare to the other options?

Quicken Spell is more general.  It doesn't let me act out of turn, but it doesn't have the nasty Dazing side effect either.  It also lets me cast spells of different levels - like a level 2 web followed by a Quickened level 3 haboob.  My GM has allowed Practical Metamagic (Races of the Dragon) and Easy Metamagic ("Dragon" Magazine).  Rods of Quicken Spell are also options, but those are 3/day.

Arcane spellsurge (Dragon Magic) is a handy way to cast a standard action and full-round action spell per turn, but its effects can't be suppressed.  Sorcerers commonly used Sanctum Spell or Invisible Spell on certain spells to just cast 2 spells per round for arcane spellsurge's duration.  I can take the Common Arcana Slow Sorcery, but I'm hesitant to do so for just this spell.  Besides, arcane spellsurge is a level 7 spell!

I'm open to other options.  Remember, I have all of first party and "Dragon" magazine tentatively available to me!

Closing Thoughts
This is a discussion for me, but also in general.  Which of these options (or another) do you believe is best overall if you can only focus on one?  What's your second favorite?  Third favorite?  Why?

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2016, 10:24:52 PM »
It depends on if you're reducing the cost of Quicken or not, and if you are, by how much. If you reduce the cost a bit, it is probably the best option (especially if you reduce it to zero  :cool ).
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Endarire

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
  • Smile! Jesus loves you!
    • View Profile
    • Greg Campbell's Portfolio
Re: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2016, 12:15:07 AM »
How to reduce Quicken to 0?

Offline KellKheraptis

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 438
  • Temporal Dissonance Technician
    • View Profile
Re: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 10:25:26 AM »
How to reduce Quicken to 0?

Count as a "priest of Mystra" inside a Mystran temple and add one free metamagic to every spell you cast.  Finagle Prestige Paladin onto your class and take Battle Blessing.  Play an ScM and Arcane Thesis (Silent Image) emulating Miracles from cantrips.  Off the top of my head :)

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 03:45:21 PM »
Battle Blessing doesn't work like that Kell, like at all.

@Endarire umm... Pick a method?
Incantatrix can do it several times a day, Spelldancer can do it by increasing casting time (kind of ironic), Tainted Sorcerer can pay the costs with Con damage. Free specific Metamagic PrCs include stuff like Abjuration Champion, Recaster, Sandshaper, Escalation Mage, Spellwarped Sniper, etc. There is a couple 1/day things like Anima Mage & Magical Trickster too. Item wise, Metamagic Spell Trigger(feat) & Metamagic Wandgrib(item) both let you blow charges off Wands to pay for Metamagics and a Minor Scheme of Metamagic Item can add any Metamagic Feat to another item (great for cheap persist!). There is also some generic cost reducers like Practical Metamagic(Dragon mag?), Easy Metamagic (RotD?), Metamagic School Focus, & Halruaan Elder. And don't forget about Arcane Thesis and all the rest like DMM & Metamagic Song I just don't have the time to list. Point is if you want free Metamagics, there are ways to do it.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 11:43:42 AM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Endarire

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
  • Smile! Jesus loves you!
    • View Profile
    • Greg Campbell's Portfolio
Re: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 05:28:16 PM »
Kell: What's this priest of Mystra thingy?  I was strongly considering being an Angel of Mystra anyway.

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 06:12:11 PM »
You forgot how Metamagic Specialist interacts with Arcane Spellsurge.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 09:41:26 PM by Solo »
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10717
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2016, 09:13:14 PM »
Kell: What's this priest of Mystra thingy?  I was strongly considering being an Angel of Mystra anyway.
Priests of Mystra can apply metamagic for free from within one of her temples (per FRCS, IIRC). If you get an Acorn of Far Travel keyed to a tree within one of these temples, you can therefore apply free metamagic all the time.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Endarire

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1662
  • Smile! Jesus loves you!
    • View Profile
    • Greg Campbell's Portfolio
Re: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 03:20:41 AM »
Phaed: The Mystra Temple thingy was in Faiths and Pantheons 51.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: [3.5] Sorcerer Extra Spells per Round: Quicken Spell vs Celerity vs Else
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2016, 11:36:42 AM »
If you get an Acorn of Far Travel keyed to a tree within one of these temples, you can therefore apply free metamagic all the time.
It doesn't work like that any more than Powerful Build makes you large, you should try finishing the entry to see how it quantifies it's benefit.

And speaking of Cleric I can't believe I forgot DMM in my previous post, well I suppose I can mention Metamagic Song then.