Replacing/Removing Feats Entirely

[Amechra]

Now, I've got a buddy who whines, carps, and complains whenever he's brought near a D&D derivative.

He hates feats in particular - he got spoiled by 13th Age, where feats are part of the class features.

So now I've got a bit of a mental "whatever" going - how would one go about replacing Feats?

I can see two basic choices:
1. The FATE/HERO/Nobilis/etc Approach: Feats are built by the players from a small pile of mechanics; there isn't a pre-existing list of feats, except for a few examples. I'd probably combine this with this.
2. The OSR Approach: Just give the characters some scaling bonuses, and be permissive about what they can do. Maybe steal this, as well.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[ketaro]

Class features are feats and feat feats are just more bonus/cherry-pickable character options. Shoot I just looked at how 13th age explains feats right now and I see such little difference, the only "big" difference being their being multiple tiers of feats which is no different than D&D feats that are level locked, that I'm compelled to say this buddy of yours is just being an entitled b----. 

Of course I'm also looking at it with both 3.x & PF in mind, so admittedly, to me, it simply feels more similar to PF's progression stuff than 3.x. The Barbarian feats, for example, could be considered similar to a PF Barbarian's rage powers. But then you also get normal Barbarian class features on top of that and more feats on top of that and what the hell could this guy possibly have to complain about? Being drowned in too many choices?

Yo, a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down. Drown him in sugar whilst you get his butt used to the entire world's worth of tabletops that aren't the single one he likes 

[Nanshork]

I haven't seen 13th Age, but if I was to remove feats from a system I'd just turn them into choosable class features like ketaro talks about 13th Age being similar to.

[Amechra]

Yo, a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down. Drown him in sugar whilst you get his butt used to the entire world's worth of tabletops that aren't the single one he likes 

This is especially hilarious since he's probably played and enjoyed, like, 20+ different RPGs at this point. This is just a complaint he has about every WotC-era D&D. He also bitched about NWoD merits, even though he had no problem with the Advantages/Disadvantages system when we played L5R  .

I guess I didn't clarify - the reason I think he likes 13th Age's approach is that they don't throw a massive list of feats at you. Instead, you have a really short list of general feats, and then everything else is organized under the class or racial feature it improves.

It might also be that 13th Age doesn't engage in the Piddly Shit design ethos - there aren't prereq feats you are forced to take for no good reason, ya know?


I mean, if all I wanted to do is make him stop bitching, I'd just take the time to chop the Feat list down to size. I'm looking for ideas on how you'd replace feats entirely, because I'm curious at this point.

[ketaro]

I guess option 2 then. Cause it sounds like being creative and convincing will let you get away with what ya need to as a player. I prefer more creative stuff

[Maelphaxerazz]

This is just a complaint he has about every WotC-era D&D. He also bitched about NWoD merits, even though he had no problem with the Advantages/Disadvantages system when we played L5R  .

I guess I didn't clarify - the reason I think he likes 13th Age's approach is that they don't throw a massive list of feats at you. Instead, you have a really short list of general feats, and then everything else is organized under the class or racial feature it improves.

It might also be that 13th Age doesn't engage in the Piddly Shit design ethos - there aren't prereq feats you are forced to take for no good reason, ya know?


I mean, if all I wanted to do is make him stop bitching, I'd just take the time to chop the Feat list down to size. I'm looking for ideas on how you'd replace feats entirely, because I'm curious at this point.

Well, apart from  getting rid of piddly shit prereq feats (a change I heartily recommend), it sounds like your friend's issue is less with feats and more with how feats are organized. After all, you can take the General feat list and subdivide it into feats that improve skills, feats that improve attacks, feats that improve defences, feats that improve spellcasting, feats that improve particular class features, and so on, and thus have something similar to 13th.

But as for replacing feats entirely, you could go the 5e route and make everything an ability check, and replace feats with increases to ability scores. In 3.5 +1 to ability score is already available as an Epic feat choice, but perhaps it would work fine as a non-epic one.

[ketaro]

Well, apart from  getting rid of piddly shit prereq feats (a change I heartily recommend), it sounds like your friend's issue is less with feats and more with how feats are organized. After all, you can take the General feat list and subdivide it into feats that improve skills, feats that improve attacks, feats that improve defences, feats that improve spellcasting, feats that improve particular class features, and so on, and thus have something similar to 13th.

I have a PDF that does just that for a vast majority of feats in 3.5, 3.0, & Dragon and it is the most useful thing ever