Author Topic: Dodgy McDodgerson  (Read 3338 times)

Offline Amechra

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Dodgy McDodgerson
« on: June 20, 2016, 07:26:42 PM »
So, I basically did this in an attempt to optimise Fighting Defensively hardcore. This uses the Weapon Group variant from UA, the assumption that Spinning Swords fall under Exotic Weapons (Flails and Chains), and that Swashbucklers get Basic + 3 Weapon Groups - this is the only real big leap, and seems reasonable enough to convince a DM.

If not, I guess you've got to find another way to get proficiency in Spinning Swords.

Dodgy McDodgerson
Build Stub: Kalashtar Swashbuckler 1/Hit-and-Run Fighter 2/Swashbuckler +2/Dervish 3/Duelist 5/Dervish +4/Duelist +3.
Substitution Levels: Darksong Knight 2 (Fighter substitution level, requires patron deity Elistraee and Knowledge (Religion) 1).
Skill Prereqs: Knowledge (Religion) 1 and Perform (Dance) 5 by 3rd level. Tumble 5 and Perform (Dance) 8 by 6th level. Everything else? Negotiable.
Ability Scores: Str, Dex, and Int 13, minimum. Otherwise, pump Int and Dex.

Feats:
1st Level: Dodge, MobilityFlaw, Weapon Focus (Spinning Sword)Flaw, Weapon FinesseB. Flaws are Shaky and Vulnerable.
2nd Level: Combat ExpertiseB
3rd Level: Path of Shadows, Power AttackB
6th Level: Dancing with Shadows
8th Level: Spring AttackB
9th Level: War Devotion
12th Level: Elusive Target
15th Level: Deceptive Dodge
18th Level: War Devotion



The Cool Bits
This is a very late bloomer, but bloom it does.

At 20th level, start Fighting Defensively. Sure, you take a -4 to your attack rolls, but you get a +2 bonus to AC!

Increased to +3 by 5 ranks in Tumble. Then to +7 by Elaborate Parry (Dervish 7). Then to +15 by Elaborate Parry (Duelist 7). Yeah, they have the same name, but they are completely different class features. Also, use Graceful Lunge (Dancing with Shadows). You'll see why.

Next round, you get +15 to your first attack due to Graceful Lunge (adds your AC bonus from Fighting Defensively or Combat Expertise to your first attack roll the next round).

War Devotion makes this more interesting; by 20th level, it turns your Fighting Defensively from -4/+3 to -1/+5. This turns Fighting Defensively into a +17 to AC and +17 to the first attack you make the next round, in exchange for a -1 penalty to attack rolls on the first turn. You can do this twice per day.

Also, tag the big boss monster you're fighting with Dodge; I hope they weren't relying on Power Attack for damage (Elusive Target renders you immune), that they weren't Flanking you (you automagically redirect the first melee attack they make that round to the flanker if that's the case), and that no-one tankier is standing next to you (Deceptive Dodge turns one miss each round into an attack made against a creature adjacent to you. Technically, there is nothing to stop you from redirecting their attack back into their own face.)

The Problems:
None of the stuff that makes Fighting Defensively worth it comes online in early levels (both versions of Elaborate Parry come into play at 7th level of the respective classes), and War Devotion only lasts one round (unlike other Devotion feats, that tend to last one minute).

If you want to fix these problems (and why wouldn't you?), I suggest letting War Devotion last one minute in exchange for a Swift action activation. Also, roll the Duelist's Elaborate Parry into Canny Defense - it can do with the buff, and getting improving the bonus from Fighting Defensively by your class level is great to have from 1st level instead of 7th.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline ketaro

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Re: Dodgy McDodgerson
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2016, 08:15:54 PM »
Osyluth Guile combat feat from PF adds your Cha to fighting defensively or total defense actions. ????

Offline Amechra

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Re: Dodgy McDodgerson
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 08:24:37 PM »
Osyluth Guile combat feat from PF adds your Cha to fighting defensively or total defense actions.

That'd make a good trade for one of the War Devotions for a 3.P game (this is for pure 3.5). It does add Charisma dependency to the build, though.

EDIT: Sadly, I checked the feat, and it wouldn't boost the attack bonus from Dancing with Shadows. It gives you a separate Dodge bonus instead of increasing the bonus.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline ketaro

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Re: Dodgy McDodgerson
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2016, 11:04:46 PM »
Ah, I saw the 3.5 & pf part but missed the 3.x exclusively part of the sub forum label -_-'

Offline gorfnab

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Re: Dodgy McDodgerson
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2016, 12:49:50 AM »
Well there are some ideas for this setup mentioned in the handbook: A short guide to defensive fighting

If Oriental Adventures is in play having 15 ranks in Tumble bumps up the AC bonus from fighting defensively to +4, instead of having just the +3 for 5 ranks in Tumble.

One build I came up with awhile ago uses fighting defensively combined with Robilar's Gambit and Stormguard Warrior.
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« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 12:55:27 AM by gorfnab »

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Dodgy McDodgerson
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 03:49:06 PM »
Is Carmendine Monk being used for the +2 monk level ability, or just the Int?  If it's just the Int stuff then you might as well go Kung Fu Genius instead since Dragon Mag is on the table based on the item entry.

And if Robilar's Gambit and Dragon Mag are used together, then the Dragon Mag 340 feat Improved Combat Reflexes is a great addition.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 04:45:29 PM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline deadkitten

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Re: Dodgy McDodgerson
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 07:40:12 PM »
Is Carmendine Monk being used for the +2 monk level ability, or just the Int?  If it's just the Int stuff then you might as well go Kung Fu Genius instead since Dragon Mag is on the table based on the item entry.

And if Robilar's Gambit and Dragon Mag are used together, then the Dragon Mag 340 feat Improved Combat Reflexes is a great addition.

It might be better for the build overall just to save a feat.

But yea, I am more a fan of Kung Fu Genius than Carmedine Monk myself