Author Topic: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers  (Read 21288 times)

Offline HCL

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« on: November 30, 2011, 12:30:11 PM »
Reposting this from BG:

Anarchic Initiate (Complete Psion)
(click to show/hide)

Anima Mage (Tome of Magic)
(click to show/hide)

Champion of Gwynharwyf (BoED)
(click to show/hide)

Hulking Hurler (Complete Warrior)
(click to show/hide)

Planar Sheperd (Faiths of Ebberron)
(click to show/hide)

Rainbow Servant (Complete Divine)
(click to show/hide)

Runescarred Berserker (Unnapproachable East)
(click to show/hide)

Ur-priest (BoVD and Complete Divine)
(click to show/hide)

Soul Eater- (BoVD)
(click to show/hide)

Void Disciple - bizarre signature ability that's ambiguous but potentially game-breaking. (CDiv)
(click to show/hide)

Sentinel of Bharrai - gives your Wizard some Druid awesomeness with full Wiz casting progression (BoED)
(click to show/hide)



Soulbow - saving the Soulknife since 2006 (CPsi)
(click to show/hide)

Thrallherd (EPH)
(click to show/hide)


Incantatrix
(click to show/hide)

Offline HCL

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 12:30:43 PM »
Tainted Scholar (heroes of horror)
(click to show/hide)

Shadowcraft Mage (Races of Stone)
(click to show/hide)

Disciple of Dispater: BoVD
(click to show/hide)

Dweomerkeeper: CD
(click to show/hide)

Emissaries of Barachiel: BoED
(click to show/hide)

Halruan Elder: Shining South
(click to show/hide)

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil: Complete Adventurer
(click to show/hide)

Legendary Captain: Stormwrack
(click to show/hide)

Moonspeaker (Nondruid Entry): Races of Eberron
(click to show/hide)

Sacred Exorcist (Noncleric Entry): CD
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 06:38:32 PM by HCL »

Offline HCL

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 12:37:58 PM »
Sublime Chord: Complete Arcane
(click to show/hide)

Teflammar Shadowlord: Unapproachable East
(click to show/hide)

Thrall of Juiblex: BoVD
(click to show/hide)

Walker in the Waste (Cleric Entry or favored soul entry?) : Sandstorm
(click to show/hide)


Warshaper (Noncaster Entry): Complete Warrior
(click to show/hide)

War Hulk: Miniatures Handbook
(click to show/hide)

Slayer (Psion entry, for psychic warriors only +1): SRD
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 12:19:39 PM by HCL »

Offline HCL

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, 12:38:10 PM »
Also Reserved

Offline HCL

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, 12:38:27 PM »
Just one more reservation

Offline Lycanthromancer

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 295
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 01:44:58 PM »
I'm not actually that impressed with the class features of the anarchic initiate. Sure it's full manifesting, and better than psion overall, but I'd much rather go for a dip for chaotic surge and then head to another PrC.

But that's just me.

Offline Sinfire Titan

  • Hustler 3
  • Retired Admin
  • *****
  • Posts: 1443
  • You have one round to give a rat's ass.
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, 01:58:29 PM »
I'm not actually that impressed with the class features of the anarchic initiate. Sure it's full manifesting, and better than psion overall, but I'd much rather go for a dip for chaotic surge and then head to another PrC.

But that's just me.

I'm inclined to agree. The improved manifesting is nice and all, but the rest of the class is underwhelming. The planar rift thing is cool and all, but 1/day sucks.
Concerned about how moderation works here? Please PM this account.

Offline Lycanthromancer

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 295
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, 04:57:43 PM »
I'm not actually that impressed with the class features of the anarchic initiate. Sure it's full manifesting, and better than psion overall, but I'd much rather go for a dip for chaotic surge and then head to another PrC.

But that's just me.

I'm inclined to agree. The improved manifesting is nice and all, but the rest of the class is underwhelming. The planar rift thing is cool and all, but 1/day sucks.
Basically, full manifesting and chaotic surge are awesome (and worth the +2 just for that), but otherwise, meh.

Offline Bastian

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 169
  • Is playing a Sorcerer
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2011, 08:10:29 PM »
So the workhorse of this class is using Extended Silent Heightened Image spells to spontaneously cast conjurations and evocations. Or, you could of course use it ot make illusions. This can be way more powerful than your standard Conjurer/Evoker if you are creative with it.
This should say Extended Heightened Silent Image. What you have there means you are using Extend Spell, Heighten Spell, and Silent Spell on "Image spells."

Offline Nachofan99

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 111
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2011, 08:29:55 PM »
How is Runescarred Berserker +2?  Just doesn't strike me as right at all.  Is there something absurdly silly you can do with the runescars?

Offline TenaciousJ

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 600
  • AVENGE WAGON
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2011, 10:33:22 PM »
It's +2 compared to its intended entry.  It could take a standard (as in tier 5 without ACFs) barbarian up to tier 3 with the spells it grants.  The class only progresses to 5th level spells, but it has certain gems like Righteous Might, Freedom of Movement, and Heal at lower-than-normal levels.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 10:38:03 PM by TenaciousJ »
Make Eberron Great Again! #MEGA

Offline Sinfire Titan

  • Hustler 3
  • Retired Admin
  • *****
  • Posts: 1443
  • You have one round to give a rat's ass.
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2011, 11:35:16 PM »
It's +2 compared to its intended entry.  It could take a standard (as in tier 5 without ACFs) barbarian up to tier 3 with the spells it grants.  The class only progresses to 5th level spells, but it has certain gems like Righteous Might, Freedom of Movement, and Heal at lower-than-normal levels.

5th level spells is usually good enough, seeing as that's enough to get the Duskblade up to Tier 3.
Concerned about how moderation works here? Please PM this account.

Offline Nachofan99

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 111
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2011, 11:43:10 PM »
So Shenanigans.

I did not realize you could cherry pick *any* spells from *any* lists to put into your runescars.  Still, seems underwhelming.

A Barbarian with full levels of RSB is going to be as "versatile" and "effective" as: Dread Necro, Beguiler, Bard, Factotum and even PsyWar?  I just don't think so.  But I can see it being T4++.  So I guess.

Wonder if anyone has any real game table experience with it?

Offline Sinfire Titan

  • Hustler 3
  • Retired Admin
  • *****
  • Posts: 1443
  • You have one round to give a rat's ass.
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2011, 11:47:27 PM »
So Shenanigans.

I did not realize you could cherry pick *any* spells from *any* lists to put into your runescars.  Still, seems underwhelming.

A Barbarian with full levels of RSB is going to be as "versatile" and "effective" as: Dread Necro, Beguiler, Bard, Factotum and even PsyWar?  I just don't think so.  But I can see it being T4++.  So I guess.

Wonder if anyone has any real game table experience with it?

It will be about as efficient as a Duskblade if you replace the Arcane Channeling with a significantly less narrow spell list.
Concerned about how moderation works here? Please PM this account.

Offline Aliek

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • You were hit by a DMG for uncountable dmg. Reroll.
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2011, 04:15:18 AM »
Something I don't really get is why Halruuan Elder is considered an up 2 PrC while Red Wizard/Hathran are just up 1. Their main power would be circle magic, which each one of them can use to about the same effect, other than a red wizard with circle magic simulacrums, but that'd be mostly a little bit better only.

Offline KellKheraptis

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 438
  • Temporal Dissonance Technician
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2011, 12:43:34 AM »
Something I don't really get is why Halruuan Elder is considered an up 2 PrC while Red Wizard/Hathran are just up 1. Their main power would be circle magic, which each one of them can use to about the same effect, other than a red wizard with circle magic simulacrums, but that'd be mostly a little bit better only.

All three should be up 2.  My Red Wizard officially won the TBoS challenge, and Hathran's can also cast spontaneously.  Each has additional perks to go with their circle magic, depending on if you like CL/DC boosters, free metamagic, or spontaneous Vancian casters (though of the three, the Elder's are the hardest to mimic with other things).

Offline lieronet

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Rock You
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2014, 12:58:28 PM »
Necropoooooooooooooooooost!

Telflammar Shadowlord: What Shadowdancer always wanted to be
Logical entry - tricky. Rogue x/totemist 2, primarily. Swordsages/Ruby Knight Vindicators if the DM is kind. Someone else write this part up.

Pros: SHADOW POUNCE. Can't overstate it. Pounce on steroids. With swift action teles (high level Swordsage, Totemist 2 dip), you get a move + standard in addition to a full-round that is going to do some major hurt.

Short but insane spell list. Arcane casters, so they can use Eternal Wands. A solid selection of spells like Haste, Invisibility, Greater Invisibility, Mislead, Darkbolt, Mislead, the list goes on. Only thing it's missing is a second Divination spell, to immediately qualify for Unseen Seer.

A handful of cool class abilities. Free Blur in low light, shadow stride, a free 1/day shadow walk, a free cheat death, free super darkvision 60'.

UMD as a class skill, opening up some cool stuff.

Cons: Rough entry requirements. Spring Attack feat tree plus Blind-Fight is a heavy feat tax.

Iffy chassis. d6 hit die, 3/4 BAB, and 4 skills/level. Cast on Int though, so it's not all bad.

Overall: Adds a ton of options to a straight Rogue. Solves their positioning issues with applying SA, adds a bit of survivability, and adds some very useful spells. Low +2/high +1 for sure, this class is bonkers good.

Warshaper:
Logical entry - Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms, Changeling Monk/X.

Pros: Increased size on Natural Weapons. Free 5' reach. Free +4 to Str and Con. Free Fast Healing 2. Not +2 material for a Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms (5' reach does not a T1 make), but definitely +2 for a Monk entry.

Cons: Low skills, 3/4 BAB.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 01:08:34 PM by lieronet »
What would you think if I sang out of tune?

Offline HCL

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2014, 06:42:05 PM »
Necropoooooooooooooooooost!

Telflammar Shadowlord: What Shadowdancer always wanted to be
Logical entry - tricky. Rogue x/totemist 2, primarily. Swordsages/Ruby Knight Vindicators if the DM is kind. Someone else write this part up.

Pros: SHADOW POUNCE. Can't overstate it. Pounce on steroids. With swift action teles (high level Swordsage, Totemist 2 dip), you get a move + standard in addition to a full-round that is going to do some major hurt.

Short but insane spell list. Arcane casters, so they can use Eternal Wands. A solid selection of spells like Haste, Invisibility, Greater Invisibility, Mislead, Darkbolt, Mislead, the list goes on. Only thing it's missing is a second Divination spell, to immediately qualify for Unseen Seer.

A handful of cool class abilities. Free Blur in low light, shadow stride, a free 1/day shadow walk, a free cheat death, free super darkvision 60'.

UMD as a class skill, opening up some cool stuff.

Cons: Rough entry requirements. Spring Attack feat tree plus Blind-Fight is a heavy feat tax.

Iffy chassis. d6 hit die, 3/4 BAB, and 4 skills/level. Cast on Int though, so it's not all bad.

Overall: Adds a ton of options to a straight Rogue. Solves their positioning issues with applying SA, adds a bit of survivability, and adds some very useful spells. Low +2/high +1 for sure, this class is bonkers good.

Warshaper:
Logical entry - Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms, Changeling Monk/X.

Pros: Increased size on Natural Weapons. Free 5' reach. Free +4 to Str and Con. Free Fast Healing 2. Not +2 material for a Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms (5' reach does not a T1 make), but definitely +2 for a Monk entry.

Cons: Low skills, 3/4 BAB.

Thanks dude, I added it in

Offline lieronet

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Rock You
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 11:43:29 PM »
You mixed in my Warshaper writeup with the TFS writeup :L
What would you think if I sang out of tune?

Offline HCL

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Why up 2 Tier Prestige Classes are up 2 tiers
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2014, 12:20:30 PM »
You mixed in my Warshaper writeup with the TFS writeup :L

Yarrr, it be fixed