Author Topic: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?  (Read 55371 times)

Offline Halinn

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2011, 02:22:56 PM »
Besides, as long as you are in that deep TO territory, doesn't pun-pun start as a level 1 paladin?

Offline Mooncrow

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2011, 02:27:22 PM »
Besides, as long as you are in that deep TO territory, doesn't pun-pun start as a level 1 paladin?

Agreed.  The OP asked for no infinite loops, and just because you picked a point to stop in the infinite loop, it doesn't change what it is.

Offline bruceleeroy

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2011, 05:56:45 PM »
Besides, as long as you are in that deep TO territory, doesn't pun-pun start as a level 1 paladin?

Agreed.  The OP asked for no infinite loops, and just because you picked a point to stop in the infinite loop, it doesn't change what it is.

Pretty much. The point of the challenge is to explore melee character capabilities. A Candle of Invocation could similarly solve this challenge, but has nothing to do with melee. 

Jojolagger's use of Contingent spells is already drifting towards the edges; what makes his build still viable is that the main mechanic (exploiting roof jumper) doesn't require the contingent spells to function.

A build that used wealth exploitation and piles of contingent spells to kill a balor with a level 1 would also be outside the purpose of the challenge, for what I think are obvious reasons.

Really, I'm pretty satisfied with what has come up so far. I figured it would come down to a Hood of some sort, and the two lowest level builds have been exactly that. SorO's is more of a standard Hood chassis, whereas Jojolagger's I think is rather theorectical - I can't see that being effective in a normal game, simply due to the contingent spells.
Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.



Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2011, 06:56:46 PM »
"Hood"? You mean the defenseless little girl with no grandma?

Did you mean Dragoon?
Perhaps it is a reference to Final Fantasy's Jump trait?
Maybe you meant to call it what it really is, Charging?

"Hood" is almost as bad as "Harry" over on the DDO forums. >.>



Offline littha

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2011, 07:07:23 PM »
"Hood"? You mean the defenseless little girl with no grandma?

Did you mean Dragoon?
Perhaps it is a reference to Final Fantasy's Jump trait?
Maybe you meant to call it what it really is, Charging?

"Hood" is almost as bad as "Harry" over on the DDO forums. >.>

Technically Jump is a command or action ability and not a trait in Final Fantasy Games...

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2011, 10:27:11 PM »
I'm at ~200 Str for a 1-1/4 ECL build :P
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #86 on: December 04, 2011, 10:59:21 PM »
Technically Jump is a command or action ability and not a trait in Final Fantasy Games...
It's a trait found in Dragoons...

I'm at ~200 Str for a 1-1/4 ECL build :P
Which is only +145 damage, you need a bit more to handle DR.

And a second attack.
So I suggest TWF, and with that kind of bonus you don't even need the feat...


Offline jojolagger

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #87 on: December 04, 2011, 11:10:21 PM »
I'm at ~200 Str for a 1-1/4 ECL build :P
Orly? Let's see it then.  :rolleyes
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #88 on: December 05, 2011, 01:07:36 AM »
I'm at ~200 Str for a 1-1/4 ECL build :P
Which is only +145 damage, you need a bit more to handle DR.

And a second attack.
So I suggest TWF, and with that kind of bonus you don't even need the feat...

How does about 200-300 attacks?

I'm at ~200 Str for a 1-1/4 ECL build :P
Orly? Let's see it then.  :rolleyes

EDIT: not finished... but close ;)
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 03:39:49 AM by zook1shoe »
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #89 on: December 05, 2011, 04:34:56 AM »
You know, with 1/2 of the effort you're putting into that, you could make a Template guide in handbooks for us.

Offline littha

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2011, 09:09:50 AM »
Technically Jump is a command or action ability and not a trait in Final Fantasy Games...
It's a trait found in Dragoons...


Traits are passive or triggered abilities, like a lot of feats in 3.5 (Toughness or cleave but not power attack). Jump is more like a martial manuver or spell.

Offline Sirdanile

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2011, 10:11:56 AM »
If you can garuntee a surprise round and kill the balor in it you don't need to optimize initiative.

Bring on the stealth jumpers?

And for surviving the explosion if youj can't get quite enough hp...

From the Band-Aids for Dummies Handbook
Healing Devotion (Complete Champion)
Requirements: Worship a deity or concept that offers the Healing domain.
Rating: ****
Effect: Fast Healing equal to 1/4th your Character Level. Can be taken multiple times for more daily uses, and can spend Turn Undead to reactivate. It automatically activates if your HP is reduced to 0 or lower, but not killed outright (so it saves you). And you can transfer it!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 10:30:01 AM by Sirdanile »

Offline jojolagger

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #92 on: December 05, 2011, 10:25:14 AM »
I'm at ~200 Str for a 1-1/4 ECL build :P
Orly? Let's see it then.  :rolleyes

EDIT: not finished... but close ;)
(click to show/hide)
I don't see any text saying that symbiotic creatures lose previous LA. Could you point it out?
Out of net access for a bit. Should be back late monday.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #93 on: December 05, 2011, 11:08:14 AM »
*looking* .... Hmm I swear I remember seeing guest +1 somewhere

I don't have access to the 3.5 update handbook

If not.... It'll be Tauric beaver with ~1-1/4hd and +2 la and nearly everything else is the same
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Offline Mixster

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #94 on: December 05, 2011, 01:37:05 PM »
Bring on the stealth jumpers?
Hmm, Balors have +38 in spot, meaning it can't spot people with ranks in hide at ranges beyond 400ft. So if you jump at him from more than that you should be golden.

Do dropping objects on him that weigh enough to kill count as killing him in Melee if you drop yourself at the same time? I'm thinking this could be done with a Half-Minotaur Tauric Lolth-Touched Commoner.
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Offline Halinn

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #95 on: December 05, 2011, 02:23:42 PM »
Commoner 1, chicken infested, spend 5 gold on a spell component pouch. Drown the world in chickens. Balors have to breathe, don't they?

Offline littha

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2011, 03:10:12 PM »
Commoner 1, chicken infested, spend 5 gold on a spell component pouch. Drown the world in chickens. Balors have to breathe, don't they?

They do but it wont suffocate in the one round it takes to cast blasphemy or fire storm and kill you and all your chickens. Plus even if you do kill it it will explode and probably take you with it.

It can also use greater teleport at will so unless you fill the whole planet with chicken it will likley escape to an air pocket underground or inside a building somewhere.

Offline Halinn

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #97 on: December 05, 2011, 03:53:05 PM »
Commoner 1, chicken infested, spend 5 gold on a spell component pouch. Drown the world in chickens. Balors have to breathe, don't they?

They do but it wont suffocate in the one round it takes to cast blasphemy or fire storm and kill you and all your chickens. Plus even if you do kill it it will explode and probably take you with it.

It can also use greater teleport at will so unless you fill the whole planet with chicken it will likley escape to an air pocket underground or inside a building somewhere.

Free actions. You don't even have to be on the same hemisphere. Of course, then it's not quite melee. And you've killed everything else too.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2011, 04:47:42 PM »
If you can garuntee a surprise round and kill the balor in it you don't need to optimize initiative.

Bring on the stealth jumpers?

And for surviving the explosion if youj can't get quite enough hp...

From the Band-Aids for Dummies Handbook
Healing Devotion (Complete Champion)
Requirements: Worship a deity or concept that offers the Healing domain.
Rating: ****
Effect: Fast Healing equal to 1/4th your Character Level. Can be taken multiple times for more daily uses, and can spend Turn Undead to reactivate. It automatically activates if your HP is reduced to 0 or lower, but not killed outright (so it saves you). And you can transfer it!

Umm vorpal?
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Offline littha

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Re: Min/Max challenge - Lowest level melee build to beat a Balor?
« Reply #99 on: December 05, 2011, 04:49:47 PM »
If you can garuntee a surprise round and kill the balor in it you don't need to optimize initiative.

Bring on the stealth jumpers?

And for surviving the explosion if youj can't get quite enough hp...

From the Band-Aids for Dummies Handbook
Healing Devotion (Complete Champion)
Requirements: Worship a deity or concept that offers the Healing domain.
Rating: ****
Effect: Fast Healing equal to 1/4th your Character Level. Can be taken multiple times for more daily uses, and can spend Turn Undead to reactivate. It automatically activates if your HP is reduced to 0 or lower, but not killed outright (so it saves you). And you can transfer it!

Umm vorpal?
Vorpal/Implosion/Blasphemy/Enough damage to kill you in one hit/Death by Massive Damage

All that will save you from is if the explosion reduces you down to 0 to -9 hp which is a rather small range and thus you still need at least 91 hp to survive the blast (not counting the fort save against massive damage).
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 04:53:42 PM by littha »