Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood

[Kuroimaken]

Ladies and gentlemen.

Bakuman.

Discuss.

[Raineh Daze]

Ladies and gentlemen.

Bakuman.

Discuss.

Is that the one about the manga writer*?

*Artist? You know, I'm not sure the correct English for this, which is baffling as I am English.

[Kuroimaken]

The one about the manga writing/drawing duo, yes.

[SorO_Lost]

idk Bakumon.

I do know RD mentioned Shonen Ace which contains ecchi & seinen literature adopted to/for shonen. Which kind of treks back to my earlier point, s/he cannot provide anything without committing some kind of gross error. In this case, choosing adult materials that were purposely altered from their original work in order to be published as and considered shonen.

And speaking of wikipedia

Shōnen (少年) manga (漫画) is typically characterized by high-action,[2] often humorous plots featuring male protagonists. The camaraderie between boys or men on sports teams, fighting squads and the like is often emphasized. Attractive female characters like Bulma from Dragon Ball or Nami from One Piece, with exaggerated features are also common (see fan service). Main characters may also feature an ongoing desire to better themselves.[1]

Such manga often portray challenges to the protagonist's abilities, skills, and maturity, stressing self-perfection, austere self-discipline, sacrifice in the cause of duty, and honorable service to society, community, family, and friends.[3][4]

It agrees with me.

Now it does go on you say the above is not a requirement of Shonen and what generally classifies shonen is weather or not it was published in a shonen magazine before cutting back to mention most follow the above. But I mean it is Wikipedia, advertisements being considered shonen just because they were printed in a magazine is the definition I'd except from a bunch of clouts. But fundamentally, the generalization that I and wikipedia have said holds true. And that's really all there is to it.

[Kuroimaken]

Shonen is both a gender and a demographic. But the former is ill-defined and the latter isn't.

I mentioned Bakuman especifically because the manga does ask itself what is Shonen and what isn't. It fools around with the concept itself. It toys with the notion that shonen as a genre can be limited in what ways the narrative can be expressed.

It is also an unmistakably shonen manga that utilizes the same kind of emotional back-and-forth a regular shonen manga would. It's the kind of thing the demographic would consume, but it has next to nothing in common with regular shonen manga. The characters are not supernaturally enhanced in any way, they live in our world, they have the same kinds of human vulnerabilities we do. They don't get powerups, or special techniques, though they do grow increasingly better at what they do as the story progresses. It is very much a slice of life manga, but one that has such a rhythm that you can't put it down after you pick it up.

Bakuman has no downtime or boring parts.

[Raineh Daze]

Wikipedia only agrees with you in general terms. That is, shonen manga often contain those things, but it isn't required. Plus it's a large enough grab bag that you start including a lot of shonen things that aren't actually shonen because they happen to have action and the protagonist wanting to improve.

'Shounen' does not equate to a subset of 'action'.

Hell, the paragraph you conveniently cut your quote off at:

None of these listed characteristics are a requirement, as seen in shōnen manga like Yotsuba&!, which features a female lead and almost no fan service or action; what most defines whether or not a series is shōnen are things like the magazine (see Weekly Shōnen Jump) it is serialized in or the time slot it airs on T.V. After the case of Tsutomu Miyazaki, depictions of violence and sexual matters became more highly regulated in manga in general, but especially in shōnen manga.[5] The art style of shōnen is generally less "flowery" than that of shōjo manga, although this varies greatly from artist to artist, and some artists draw both shōnen and shōjo manga.

Accusing me of gross errors when quoting a page that supports me is pointless. What's ad hominem meant to achieve?

[Jackinthegreen]

FMA meets Dark Souls 2:



No idea what the build fully is though.

[SorO_Lost]

Hell, the paragraph you conveniently cut your quote off at:

Now it does go on you say the above is not a requirement of Shonen and what generally classifies shonen is weather or not it was published in a shonen magazine before cutting back to mention most follow the above. But I mean it is Wikipedia, advertisements being considered shonen just because they were printed in a magazine is the definition I'd except from a bunch of clouts. But fundamentally, the generalization that I and wikipedia have said holds true. And that's really all there is to it.

Nope, covered it. Thanks for not reading anything but posting anyway.

It's also not ad hominem attacks, but observations. Like the above, where you talk about section I brought up already and addressed. You really didn't read my post and proved you didn't all on your own. You're prioritized arguing against me over proper usage of the word "genre" (tip: I'm right google it noob) and generalizations over reading anything I type out.

I mentioned Bakuman especifically because the manga does ask itself what is Shonen and what isn't. It fools around with the concept itself. It toys with the notion that shonen as a genre can be limited in what ways the narrative can be expressed.

Besides that, is it any good? On going/completed?

[Raineh Daze]

I know the definition of genre. I object to your usage of shonen, in that it only applies to a particular subset of things actually aimed at the demographic, and includes things that are actually outside the genre. That is, the word shonen, in common parlance, does not mean something so specific.

Last time I checked, advertisements aren't published manga. I suppose that they ARE shonen adverts, since that's who they want to buy the stuff, though.

So no, your argument is crap. You're trying to argue that the word shonen means a specific story type, which is proved wrong by having just ONE thing that isn't. The fact that so many slice of life comedies shonen really doesn't help your argument that saying shonen genre should mean anything but the demographic.

EDIT: Bakuman is done by one of the two people that worked on Death Note. That's all I know.

[Kuroimaken]

I greatly enjoyed it.

And yes, it has finished. Twenty volumes, so it's actually pretty short by my standards. I actually wept after finishing reading the final edition.

[Kuroimaken]

FMA meets Dark Souls 2:

(click to show/hide)

No idea what the build fully is though.

Needs more sparkles. And an ahoge.

[Raineh Daze]

FMA meets Dark Souls 2:

(click to show/hide)

No idea what the build fully is though.

Needs more sparkles. And an ahoge.

It wasn't until the 'sparkles' thing that I worked out who it was supposed to be, and this was indeed the right thread.

[brujon]

Ahhhhh.. I want to have time to game again... Hardcore game.

[SorO_Lost]

I know the definition of genre.  ...  which is proved wrong by having just ONE thing that isn't.

*sigh*

EDIT: Bakuman is done by one of the two people that worked on Death Note. That's all I know.

I didn't like the second half of Death Note but...

I greatly enjoyed it.

I guess I'll check it out some time.

[Raineh Daze]

The definition is basically 'category of a piece of art'. It's that simple.

Now, you've been trying to argue the following:
1. Shonen is a genre (true by default, as it's a demographic)
2. In addition to the demographic criteria, shonen means 'high action etc.'

If there are things that don't fit the extra criteria, then 2 is false. There are things that don't fit the extra criteria but are considered to be shonen. Thus, the extra criteria might often be true, but you can't use the word as shorthand for the more specific genre, as it excludes things that the word includes.

... though I don't know why I'm bothering as I don't think I've ever seen you accept that you can lose an argument. :/

[brujon]

I know the definition of genre.  ...  which is proved wrong by having just ONE thing that isn't.

*sigh*

EDIT: Bakuman is done by one of the two people that worked on Death Note. That's all I know.

I didn't like the second half of Death Note but...

I greatly enjoyed it.

I guess I'll check it out some time.

Death Note died with L. N is just too farsighted, he pulls stuff out of his ass all the time. Death Note was awesome when i had like 17 years, but i now see how it was highly overrated. Agatha Christie novels are much better detective stories and there are far less asspulls.

[Raineh Daze]

I know the definition of genre.  ...  which is proved wrong by having just ONE thing that isn't.

*sigh*

EDIT: Bakuman is done by one of the two people that worked on Death Note. That's all I know.

I didn't like the second half of Death Note but...

I greatly enjoyed it.

I guess I'll check it out some time.

Death Note died with L. N is just too farsighted, he pulls stuff out of his ass all the time. Death Note was awesome when i had like 17 years, but i now see how it was highly overrated. Agatha Christie novels are much better detective stories and there are far less asspulls.

The second half can also be described as 'and thus, everything became due to pot luck, and the end result is because on one occasion Mikami did something of his own accord'.

[brujon]

Basically, yes...

[oslecamo]

Speaking of completed mangas, Knight Run's storyline has ended. Tecnically speaking  new chapters are coming out, but it's basically a sequel now starting from chapter 77. Completely new cast of characters and plot, starting some time after the end of the first story.

If you like mechas vs space bugs and sci-fi and sword porn and action girls with glasses, I highly recommend it.

[Kuroimaken]

Chapter 77... It's a pretty short one, huh? By my count that equates to roughly 10-12 volumes.