Great General Discussion and Suggestions II-Z

[ketaro]

Apply the best natural armor between pilot and mecha, if the pilot has an ability that improves natural armor it improves the pilot's own and if it ends best than the mecha's own then use the pilot'e enhanced, otherwise mecha's.

So it overlaps the pilot's, good to know. That's why the question about formatting was brought up by Rainy earlier. On the tables for Real Robots or Einst Bioframes the NatAC column lists values as "+X"; which in dnd tends to mean "add X to Y", Y being NatAC. Yanno, like how those mentioned mecha tables also say "+X" in the Saves column because that value is added to the pilot's total Save when piloting the mecha.

[oslecamo]

That's because both base save bonus and the mecha save bonus are untyped.

Added clause to clarify in the intro.

In the Einst Queen fluff, apparently they are sometimes raised in captivity or brainwashed with drugs.


Hence, the current situation with Einst Captains raises an interesting possibility of the "tame" Einst Captain kidnapping and enslaving randos and the Government is like

"This is fine."

 

[Nanshork]

I can't believe I missed this.

The bad multiclassing math came from the intro post. All four instances where it is written have an example of lvl 8 / lvl 4 with PL 10 / PL 6 (should be PL 10 / PL 8).

Looking around I'm not sweing many class features that rely on PL aside from maneuvers.

[oslecamo]

I can't believe I missed this.

The bad multiclassing math came from the intro post. All four instances where it is written have an example of lvl 8 / lvl 4 with PL 10 / PL 6 (should be PL 10 / PL 8).

Hoorah for Nanshork's keen reviewing eye noticing something that everybody else here missed for years!

(and fixed)

Looking around I'm not sweing many class features that rely on PL aside from maneuvers.

Hahaha, I had some plans for that but then outside of maneuvers ended up not using PL that much indeed.

[ketaro]

I don't think we missed it, we all just knew our own math 

[Nanshork]

It's fine that PL is basically IL, it just nixes some multiclassing I had because I'd fall behind in class features.

[oslecamo]

I would like to keep all multiclassing possibilities viable so if there's any specific combos that are too weak you can point them out and I'll think of ways of making them better (there's already a bunch of feats to help with that, in particular caster/non-caster combinations, although I guess you didn't get to checking those yet).

[Nanshork]

It's not things being weak specifically, more about access to higher level mechas and whatnot.

I've done some very targeted feat looks but haven't gotten to them generally.

[ketaro]

Are Neo Granzon maneuvers Supernatural or Extraordinary?

Does their [Force] subtype work vs immunity to nonmagical attacks?

[oslecamo]

If there's a mecha school that should be Su it's certainly Neo Granzon, done. Also added clause that they count as magic if beneficial.

[oslecamo]

Something I made for fun:

[Raineh Daze]

Hah.

[Kuroimaken]

Is it weird I do not recognize anyone in the first line?

(Yeah, I realize they're probably all from Getter Robo, but I have no idea who those three are.)

[Raineh Daze]

I'm pretty certain the first two are one of the later Getter teams.

The third one... eh, from the quote, I'm guessing Hayato again.

Hey, where does Getter Emperor fit on the chart?

[oslecamo]

The good axis is all from Getter Robo Darkness which has the main trio at least starting more goody-two-shoes (like in the pic Ryoma carrying a mother and her child by himself) and yeah the designs are quite different. Like Musashi's a girl in that timeline.

[Nanshork]

Since I said that I'll do a deep dive into the biomonster weapons before moving on that probably won't happen until this weekend because making spreadsheets feels like work right now.

[oslecamo]

Thanks! 

[Nanshork]

Bioweapons

Sensen Klingen (I) and Tentakel-dringt(VII) specify that they costs no energy but that seems to be the default.  A bunch make no mention of energy cost either way.

A handful of bioweapons don't state their crit multiplier.

Verschlinger(III) has its range in feet, not mu.

Vencom Kanone(IV) should specify that it does acid damage.

Can you select multiple bioweapons that improve the built-in bite?

Säure-Speichel(VI) should probably specify acid damage.


I have no idea how much ammo/energy cost mitigate things so I just made another table so that people better familiar with arsenal rules can easily see all of the math.  The table does not include suggested changes listed above.

(click to show/hide)

Level	Name	Attack Bonus	Damage	Crit Multiplier	Range	Ammo	Energy Cost	Special
1	Nadel Stacheln	4	1d4	x3	40 mu	8	0	Disarming
1	Klaue	3	1d6	x2	melee	N/A	0	Defensive
1	Sensen Klingen	2	1d4	x3	melee	N/A	0	Finesse, Downfall, Power
1	Selbstzerstorung	(best of other bioweapons)	(total of other bioweapons)	(best of other bioweapons)	all within 20 mu	N/A	0	Destroys the Einst
1	Anlage Beam	2	3d4	X4	25 mu	N/A	5	Area
1	Sucher Missiles	3	2d6	18-20 x2	50 mu	7	0	Power
1	Saure Backen	+2 to bite	+1d4 acid to bite	As bite	As bite	N/A	5	+Rending to bite
1	Blindes Gift	1	1d6	X2	melee	N/A	10	Target gets penalties
1	Schaufeln Krallen	2	1d8	19-20 x2	melee	11	0	Rending
Level	Name	Attack Bonus	Damage	Crit Multiplier	Range	Ammo	Energy Cost	Special
2	Nadel Klaue	5	2d6	19-20 x2	melee	N/A	5	Finesse
2	Stacheldraht Wurger	4	1d8	x2? (not stated)	30 mu	N/A	10	Area, Pinning
2	Fleisch-Bohrer	6	1d6	18-20 x2	25 mu	8	0	Rending, Concussive
2	Biologische Beam	3	5d4	X4	30 mu	N/A	20	Rending, Area
2	Zrstorer Missiles	4	2d10	18-20 x2	60mu	6	0	Power, Downfall
2	Schaufeln Krallen	4	1d12	x2	melee	N/A	10	Rending, Pinning, can grant flight
2	Knochen Schwerter	3	2d12	x3	melee	9	0	Power
2	Biostatische Rassel	6	1d8+1d8 electric	x2? (not stated)	melee	N/A	15	Target gets penalties
2	Giftige Nadel	5	4d6	x2	melee	13	0	Downfall, Disarming
Level	Name	Attack Bonus	Damage	Crit Multiplier	Range	Ammo	Energy Cost	Special
3	Mond Beam	4	5d6	x4	35 mu	N/A	30	Rending, Pinning
3	Hundin Missiles	5	3d10	18-20 x2	70 mu	5	0	Power, Pushing
3	Peitsche	6	2d6	18-20 x2	melee	N/A	0	Finesse, Disarming
3	Verschlinger	5	2d6	x2? (not stated)	25 ft	6	0	Power, Disarming
3	Fleisch-Haken	6	1d12	x2? (not stated)	35 mu	N/A	15	Brutal, Grabbing, Concussive, Downfall
3	Starke Gliedmaßen	4	3d6	x2	melee	N/A	10	Grabbing, Power, can increase non-flying speed
3	Zerreißende Krallen	7	2d10	x4	melee	N/A	15	Rending, Downfall
3	Giftige Wimpern	5	2d8	19-20 x3	melee	5	0	Defensive, Power, Rending
Level	Name	Attack Bonus	Damage	Crit Multiplier	Range	Ammo	Energy Cost	Special
4	Knochenschwert	7	2d8	x4	melee	N/A	10	Defensive, Rending
4	Vencom Kanone	6	2d12	x2? (not stated)	100 mu	N/A	15	Area, Brutal, Power, Rending
4	Sonne Beam	5	5d8	x4	40 mu	N/A	30	Rending, Concussive
4	Prinzessin Missiles	6	4d10	18-20 x2	80 mu	4	0	Power, Disarming
4	Greifzange Schwanz	5	6d8	19-20 x2	melee	7	0	Power, Disarming
4	Greifklauen	7	8d6	x3	melee	N/A	15	Grabbing, Pinning
4	Dreschmaschine Sichel	6	2d12	x2	melee	N/A	5	Downfall, Concussive
Level	Name	Attack Bonus	Damage	Crit Multiplier	Range	Ammo	Energy Cost	Special
5	Sterne Beam	6	12d6	x4	45 mu	N/A	50	Rending, Area, Concussive
5	Konigin Missiles	7	7d10	18-20 x2	90 mu	3	0	Power, Downfall, Pushing
5	Tod Werfer	7	3d10	19-20 x2	20 mu	5	0	Power, Brutal, Disarming
5	Reißend Klaue	7	3d12	19-20 x3	melee	N/A	20	Power, Finesse, Rending
5	Hellebarde Ei	7	6dd8	17-20 x2	75 mu	4	0	Area, Power, Pinning
5	Knochen Sabel	8	6d12	16-20 x2	melee	N/A	25	Rending, Disarming
5	Dehnbar Kiefer	+5 to bite	+3d12 + 3d12 acid to bite	As bite	As bite	N/A	10	+Power to bite
5	Große giftige Wimpern	6	11d8	x3	melee	5	0	Concussive, Defensive
Level	Name	Attack Bonus	Damage	Crit Multiplier	Range	Ammo	Energy Cost	Special
6	U-Bahn-Klaue	9	4d12	x3	55 mu	N/A	35	Brutal, Grabbing, Disarming
6	Saure-Speichel	10	6d10	19-20 x4	105 mu	3	0	Power, Rending, Downfall, Pinning
6	Faust Klaue	9	10d6	16-20 x2	melee	N/A	25	Disarming, Downfall, Pinning
6	Faust Beam	7	20d4	x4	50 mu	N/A	60	Rending, Area, Pinning
6	Kaiserin Missiles	8	8d10	18-20 x2	100 mu	2	0	Power, Concussive, Pushing
6	Knochen Keule	9	9d10	x2? (not stated)	melee	5	0	Concussive, Grabbing
6	Wirbelsaule-Backen	8	7d12	19-20 x4	melee	N/A	15	Pinning, Rending
6	Maht Krallen	7	11d6	18-20 x3	melee	3	0	Power, Pushing
6	Große Krallen	9	8d10	17-20 x2	melee	N/A	5	Finesse
Level	Name	Attack Bonus	Damage	Crit Multiplier	Range	Ammo	Energy Cost	Special
7	Liebe Beam	8	24d6	x4	55 mu	N/A	70	Rending, Area, Concussive, Pinning
7	Gottin Missile	9	12d12	18-20 x2	110 mu	1	0	Power, Disarming, Pushing, Downfall
7	Kaiser Klingen	9	7d12	17-20 x4	melee	N/A	40	Grabbing, Power, Rending
7	Tentakel-dringt	11	8d12	15-20 x2	185 mu	N/A	0	Brutal, Pinning, Concussive, Disarming, Downfall

[Raineh Daze]

With regards to ammo and bioweapons it's probably a "try by experience" thing because the only way to recharge it is consuming food and who knows how hard that's going to be?

[Nanshork]

With regards to ammo and bioweapons it's probably a "try by experience" thing because the only way to recharge it is consuming food and who knows how hard that's going to be?

That's fair, after reading the "reload" rules I decided that if I ever played an Einst Queen I would probably just avoid bioweapons with ammo so I didn't have to deal with it.