Grappling Handbook Discussion Thread

[sirpercival]

This thread is for discussion of the grappling handbook.

Are there any strategies, spells, or items that were missed?  I went through SpC very thoroughly, but there may very well be spells in other sources.

[Avalon®]

Is there anything that can be done for the ever-present Freedom of Movement?

[sirpercival]

Dispel magic, Arcane Turmoil, Antimagic Field, Antimagic Aura, Dispelling Screen?

Basically, don't try to grapple a caster who can cast FoM unless you can use one of the above.

[Noliar]

There needs to be an addition to the mage slayer line of feats - I'll write one.

[zook1shoe]

Check out the sewerm in the Serpent Kingdoms

As an lycanthrope, advance to 5 HD to get an amazing +22 Str plus a whopping +16 racial bonus on grapple checks!!!

Plus attach, blood drain, and a really weird poison, that makes the target not realize you grabbed them

[sirpercival]

Ooh, nice!

I also need to add Scaled Horror (since at level 1 it gives Improved Grab).

[sirpercival]

Plus, the Sewerm is available as a familiar?  Lololol.  And yet again SK shows just how balanced it is.

So, I'm adding a list of good races and monsters (for polymorph, wild shape, summoning, etc.).  Any additions?

Races:
Half-Ogre (Large)
Half-Giant (PB)
Goliath (PB)
Half-Minotaur (Large)
Eneko (PB)
Wereserpent [SK]

Monsters:
Bears (improved grab)
Snakes (constrict)
Sewerm [SK] (lol)
Treant
Tendriculos

[Surreal]

As requested, here's that old build of mine:

Warforged Cleric 3 (travel & law domains)/Totemist 2/Landforged Walker 5/Sapphire Hierarch 10
*travel domain for survival for Landforged Walker, law domain for Sapphire Hierarch
You get 9th level spells, a plant form that you can boost with incarnum, and access to DMM silliness. This would make a very strong grappler build. Also consider that you'd get Huge shapes 5 levels earlier than a druid. At level 10 you could have a huge Treant with 29 Str, boosted with Girallon and/or Kraken soulmelds, with Divine Power on top. By level 12, you can be an Iron Maw/Octopus Tree/Tendriculous boosted even more with Righteous Might. I think that's a grapple bonus of +47 (give or take a few). Oh, and you can get 8 attacks with the Octopus Tree.

level 12 grapple: 12(BAB) + 10(str) + 8(huge) + 3(div.power) + 6(righteous might) + 14(Girallon) +4(kraken) + 4(imp.grap) = 61
- a few buffs, Iron Maw, Righteous Might, Divine Power, soulmelds, no items

[Endarire]

Alter self (Sor/Wiz2) and draconic polymorph (Sor/Wiz5 - Draconomicon 79) are spiffy for transformation.

My favorite alter self grappling form is the 3 HD Shinomen Naga (Cobra version) from Oriental Adventures 173-174.  It's a Large Humanoid (!), and you can couple that with enlarge person to become the 4 HD Shinomen Naga (Constrictor version) which is a Huge Humanoid!  Huge + enlarge person = a GARGANTUAN Wizard grappling you!

[wotmaniac]

just noticed a couple of things.

Still Spell doesn't do you much good unless you also have Eschew Materials.
Also, you have the Brawler trait listed as blue -- that is a no-go for grappling characters, since the prereq for Imp.Grap. causes you to lose the benefit of this trait.

[Maat Mons]

If you can use one of the methods of aquiring the supernatural abilities of a creature you turn into, balhannoth (Monster Manual IV) offers antimagic grapple.  When you grapple someone, antimagic grapple allows you to suppress his magic items and prevent him from using any magical ability. 

Armor razors (Underdark) are variant armor spikes that deal slashing damage.  The FAQ says you can have both armor spikes and armor razors on the same armor.  It says you can only attack with one or the other at a time, so I suppose you just get to pick slashing or piercing each time. 

Gloves of the titan's grip were reprinted in Magic Item Compendium.  The only change is that now you can use craft wondrous item and bull's strength to craft them. 

The Complete Divine version of belt of the champion gives +4 to grapple on top of the +6 to str it gives for 22,000 gp and the usual relic hangups. 

[sirpercival]

just noticed a couple of things.

Still Spell doesn't do you much good unless you also have Eschew Materials.
Also, you have the Brawler trait listed as blue -- that is a no-go for grappling characters, since the prereq for Imp.Grap. causes you to lose the benefit of this trait.

Duly noted. And... I never noticed that before.  Blech.  Why can't they allow synergy EVER?

If you can use one of the methods of aquiring the supernatural abilities of a creature you turn into, balhannoth (Monster Manual IV) offers antimagic grapple.  When you grapple someone, antimagic grapple allows you to suppress his magic items and prevent him from using any magical ability. 

Armor razors (Underdark) are variant armor spikes that deal slashing damage.  The FAQ says you can have both armor spikes and armor razors on the same armor.  It says you can only attack with one or the other at a time, so I suppose you just get to pick slashing or piercing each time. 

Gloves of the titan's grip were reprinted in Magic Item Compendium.  The only change is that now you can use craft wondrous item and bull's strength to craft them. 

The Complete Divine version of belt of the champion gives +4 to grapple on top of the +6 to str it gives for 22,000 gp and the usual relic hangups. 

Thanks for this stuff, will be added.

[snakeman830]

Yeah, Brawler is without a doubt the WORST trait ever printed, as it penalizes you for armed attacks and doesn't give a bonus if you aren't provoking an AoO.  You either get a +1 bonus to attacks or you have fewer attacks made against you.

[zook1shoe]

Scorpion claw gauntlets give a +4 grapple check they're in Sandstorm standard weapon section

[Talore]

I don't have the text for a Last Resort weapon, but Knifefighter allows you to full-attack in a grapple, in addition to attacking with light weapons with no penalty and being able to draw them without a grapple check. With improved grab and knifefighter you lose very, very little from grappling your opponent since you can keep up as furious an offensive as you were when you weren't grappling them, but now they're immobile, can't attack anyone else, have a weakened offensive, and at worse they have to waste a turn escaping a grapple.

That's why I raised my eyebrows at Knifefighter being listed as red, when I see it as blue or navy. Unless of course a last resort weapon also allows full attacking (with all weapons or just the last resort weapon?)

I shoehorned Improved Grapple and Knifefighter into builds that used Hood tactics along with stealth skills, jumping into a double-damage, flat-footed, full attack charge into a free grapple, and actually being able to assassinate people!

[Jackinthegreen]

Beast Strike from Dragon 355 allows the character to add claw or slam damage to unarmed attacks and grapples.  It's also a shifter monk bonus feat at second level.

[Pluto]

Mancatchers from Complete Warrior translate attack bonuses into grapple modifiers. It doesn't take much work to make that crazy.

If you're listing spells like Black Tentacles, Shining South has a couple tentacle-clones including Malevolent Tentacles, which tags a negative level each round.

On increasing grappling damage, do you think it would be worth pointing out ways to get constrict? On something with improved grab, it's an extra die + 1-1.5xStrength with each grapple check, which adds up pretty fast. Yuan-Ti grafts, Crushing weight of the mountain and that Red Hand of Doom weapon make it pretty cheap/easy to get.

[wotmaniac]

Is there anything that can be done for the ever-present Freedom of Movement?

Someone already mentioned the balhanath (MMIV) -- I like getting there with MoMF + the feat Assume Supernatural Ability (take the balhanath's "antimagic grapple") ... may be worth it to take Imp. ASA.

[Empirate]

Nice grappling handbook, was just missing the Master of Many Forms? Especially on a Wildshape Ranger, it can do a number with grappling.

(Well, not "especially on a Wildshape Ranger" as in, better than with a Druid base, but Wildshape Rangers have much more to gain from MoMF than straight Druid. Entry is really easy with a celestial bloodline, doesn't cost you any free feats.)

[Maat Mons]

The tooth of Ahazu (Dungeon 143, p58) gives you an effective size increase for grappling.  It's a 6,000 gp item that doesn't occupy a body slot.  Like other teeth of Dahver-Nar, there's only one tooth of Ahazar, despite the fact that it has a market price.  It also gives you penalties if you don't act like a kleptomaniac.