Author Topic: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain  (Read 16908 times)

Offline DonQuixote

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2946
  • What is sickness to the body of a knight errant?
    • View Profile
    • The Spellshaping Codices (Homebrew Board)
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2011, 11:05:04 PM »
I think the absolutely most foolproof method for instilling hate in your villain is to have him start out as a DMPC.

As much as it runs counter to everything ever said, I've actually seen people pull off decent, non-aggravating DMPCs.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2012, 09:32:58 AM »
I think the absolutely most foolproof method for instilling hate in your villain is to have him start out as a DMPC.

As much as it runs counter to everything ever said, I've actually seen people pull off decent, non-aggravating DMPCs.
Its really more a way to make the players hate you rather than the characters hate the NPC.

Its really more a way of attitude I think. What the NPC actually does as far as the players are concerned is irrelevant. The NPC could be doing anything short of giving the PCs free stuff(which magically generates an atmosphere of camaraderie), and they might like or hate him.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Agrippa

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 183
  • I'm not quite sure what to say.
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2012, 08:10:09 PM »
You could also have your villains act the way this blog post suggests.

Offline Bloody Initiate

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2012, 07:31:02 PM »

The final option is mindflayers, oozes, and undead, because I hate all those fuckers. I don't like tentacles, slime, shit that wants to eat me or lay eggs in me or any of that other vile fucked up Lovecraft freakshow garbage.
You know? There's an actual psychological reason for fear of invasive or parasitic monsters.

I think the fact that they're plainly disgusting is more than enough. I don't have to be afraid a zombie is going to rape me in order to prefer NOT touching it's filthy decaying flesh. Not everything needs a Psych 101 explanation. Shit is fucking nasty, I don't want anything to do with it, simple as that. Ever play a monk when you fight oozes and stuff? Guess whose monk sat those fights out.
(click to show/hide)

Offline BrianTheBrain

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • I dislike war, I only kill out of personal spite.
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2012, 02:23:31 PM »

The final option is mindflayers, oozes, and undead, because I hate all those fuckers. I don't like tentacles, slime, shit that wants to eat me or lay eggs in me or any of that other vile fucked up Lovecraft freakshow garbage.
You know? There's an actual psychological reason for fear of invasive or parasitic monsters.

I think the fact that they're plainly disgusting is more than enough. I don't have to be afraid a zombie is going to rape me in order to prefer NOT touching it's filthy decaying flesh. Not everything needs a Psych 101 explanation. Shit is fucking nasty, I don't want anything to do with it, simple as that. Ever play a monk when you fight oozes and stuff? Guess whose monk sat those fights out.
Ah, I see.
Actually, you bring up a good point. One of the biggest fears one can use to make the player uncomfortable (more than Alien's "dicks until the end of time" schtick) is the fear that something will alter us. I know those lotus skin pictures freak me the hell out (don't look that up!). When your villain makes your players uncomfortable, they will lash out.
"There are no rules saying your psicrystal cannot have googly eyes."
-Viletta Vadim

Offline BrianTheBrain

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • I dislike war, I only kill out of personal spite.
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2012, 02:26:07 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 02:28:18 PM by BrianTheBrain »
"There are no rules saying your psicrystal cannot have googly eyes."
-Viletta Vadim

Offline Caiphon

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Madness incorporated.
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2012, 04:54:09 PM »
To be a real villain is not just to hurt their loved ones, it's to be a troll in general. Hurt the characters in the worst way possible, and only attack what's really important to them. Look at their character backgrounds and act in consequence. Don't kill their loved ones, torture them and give the character a slight chance to rescue them, then make it so they fail and are humiliated. If they care about some possession or thing, break it. And when they finally confront it, even if he's defeated, Make it such as he really Doesn't care. torture them psicologically and make them hate him in and out of character.

Offline Karlton

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 107
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2012, 04:57:53 PM »
This is a very effective way to make your party HATE the BBEG with passion.

Other than that, others before me has covered it very well. A thing that would work VERY well with my group would be to introduce a likable female NPC to befriend the party, preferably a real looker, and have the BBEG maim and kill her right before the PCs while they are powerless to stop him. Watch a few Saw movies for inspiration. Make sure that none of your PCs are holding any heavy throwable objects while your badguy does his dirty deed.

I have more Ideas, but those does not belong in the public forums.

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2012, 05:07:43 PM »
Actually the better thing is to let them rescue their loved ones, but each time, they get them back just a little fucked up. Nothing like getting it back to find it broken to piss people off more.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Jackinthegreen

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6176
  • I like green.
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2012, 09:35:28 PM »
Actually the better thing is to let them rescue their loved ones, but each time, they get them back just a little fucked up. Nothing like getting it back to find it broken to piss people off more.

Sounds like what the Joker did in one of the animated series.  Since they couldn't have him kill people, he essentially turned them into zombies with big stupid grins.

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2012, 10:16:57 PM »
Oh no, nothing that severe off the bat, you need to work up to it. Start by leaving them with little nervous tics, scars and phobias. Then you work your way up. You get more genuine hate in this manner than you can by shock value, and if your players start getting uncomfortable, you can edge over to different tacks easily.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Karlton

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 107
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2012, 12:44:50 AM »
There is that jester-like fey from HoH that drains Charisma, that ought to piss them off! Here is your kid back. He now has a cha score of 2, good luck in the schoolyard, buddy!", or you could simply have the guy drain ALL of the loved ones charisma and add that Bleak One template to actually make Joker-zombies.

I need to slap some class levels on that thing and make him a villian in my next campaign!

Offline CaptRory

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
  • Could Get Lost in a Straight Hallway
    • View Profile
Re: Making PCs Really Hate a Reoccurring Villain
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2012, 04:31:03 PM »
One of my GMs (thankfully I don't have to GM all the time anymore) makes the most compelling villains.

The thing is, they don't really engage in Card Carrying Villain behavior. And when they Kick the Dog it's not obvious. He plays them so well you get these intense passionate feelings about these NPCs.

Like, in one game we're fighting Gem Named Demons. Diamond was an absolute monster in combat. He was also the closest thing to a real monster in terms of personality. Sapphire was a manipulative bitch. But guess what, when Diamond hit Sapphire in front of the party, everyone wanted to disembowel Diamond and all the sympathy went to Sapphire. Why were we even giving her sympathy at all? Because the GM is just that good at making the NPCs real.

Drawing out the feelings and emotions of your players is about having them treat the game as real and eliciting emotional responses from the same stimuli that they would react to in real life. Having an NPC act like a bitch and engage in "normal" social behavior that everyone would find abhorrent elicits a stronger reaction than just having her eat a puppy or something. We all know someone like that, we all have a built in reaction to that kind of behavior. I don't know about you but I've never seen anyone eat a puppy before and I'm hesitent to let my imagination process it too much because I really don't want to picture it. The impact is significantly lessened unless the GM goes to great pains to describe everything, and then you're more into Squick than anger and it defeats the point.


The only thing that kept us from cheering when Diamond was finally slain, was that the GMPC made a Heroic Sacrifice to do it. I gave the character my character's last re-roll in an epic all out battle with the demons the group was not prepared for or strong enough to deal with to give him a slightly better chance at surviving his Sacrifice. He had like, a 3/64 chance of rolling well enough to live. And you know what? He made it on my reroll. And I know there's a big stigma against GMPCs, but again, he does it so well.


Anyhow, it's about making the NPCs real. And one of the best ways to do that, and anyone who writes knows this one, is to Show, Don't Tell. The characters need to interact with the villains and more than just as rivals. You could get into an Enemy Mine situation to give the heroes a better chance of really interacting with the villains. Coincidentally that was how that epic battle I mentioned started. It began with an Enemy Mine and ended when one of our players said something stupid and canceled the truce early and the demons leaped on us like a pack of ravenous wolves.