Author Topic: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)  (Read 92123 times)

Offline Sneaky_Sable

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #140 on: April 26, 2012, 12:32:57 PM »
Not bad, but he needs a better base attack bonus saving throw progression more class features access to more skills more bonus feats a puppy.

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Offline Garryl

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #141 on: April 27, 2012, 08:48:48 PM »
Definitely will be a mechanosynth evolve.  And that reminds me that I need a consistent way to allow Warforged to get mechanosynth evolves... thoughts?  (Answer in the Brainstorming thread, please.)


Grafts, maybe? In fact, why not offer a variety of evolves from both sides of Synthevolver as generic grafts. Probably only the stage 1 evolves for the things money can buy, but possibly also some stage 2 grafts could be available... for the right price. Warforged could have a racial trait or racial feat that gives them better/easier access to Mechanosynth evolve grafts. You might want a similar option for Lifetorn and Biosynth grafts, at least at character creation.

"Good news, Mr. Smith! You'll be happy to know that you're still among the living-ish. Unfortunately, there was a small problem with your kidney donor. Turns out he was a Displacer Beast. Yeah... Anyways, that'll be 85 quid."

Edit: By the way, DivHead + Zen Fundamentalist = Neo. PrC it, you know you wanna.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 09:12:21 PM by Garryl »

Offline littha

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #142 on: April 30, 2012, 09:02:18 AM »
Definitely will be a mechanosynth evolve.  And that reminds me that I need a consistent way to allow Warforged to get mechanosynth evolves... thoughts?  (Answer in the Brainstorming thread, please.)

Possibly some Warforged specific evolution granting feats, like the current ones but that allow you to take current tier evolves rather than previous tier. Might be too strong on a mechanosynth so possibly restrict it to characters whose effective mechanosynth level is less than half their ECL or something.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #143 on: April 30, 2012, 09:35:53 AM »
Time to discuss racial sub levels.  Here are the pairings I have already:

Aasimar Holomancer
Changeling Morphling
Dwarf Psykin
Elf Crystal Mage
Gnome Magitechnician
Half-Elf Planeswalker
Half-Orc Domeskipper
Halfling Dodger
Illumian DivHead
Lifetorn Medic
Mongrelfolk Biosynth
Shifter Zen Fundamentalist
Tiefling Mentalist
Warforged Morphling
Warforged Synthevolver

Zen Fundamentalist and Powerbard need racial subs (the current shifter ZF subs don't work because I overhauled the class).  Shifter should really have Morphling subs, so let's say that the ultimate goal is to have 3 races with sub levels for each class, and each race gets up to 2 classes.  I'm looking for pairings which are (a) thematically appropriate, and/or (b) swap out redundant class features (like the Warforged Morphling).  Here are my thoughts so far (current pairings starred, full races/classes italicized, open races/classes in red):

By Class
  • Crystal Mage: Elf*, Axani
  • DivHead: Illumian*
  • Dodger: Halfling*, Cansin
  • Domeskipper: Half-Orc*, Cansin, Elf
  • Holomancer: Aasimar*, Gnome
  • Magitechnician: Gnome*, Dwarf
  • Medic: Lifetorn*, Aasimar, Halfling
  • Mentalist: Tiefling*, Kalashtar, Elan
  • Morphling: Warforged*, Changeling*, Shifter
  • Planeswalker: Half-Elf*
  • Powerbard: Half-Elf, Changeling, Illumian
  • Psykin: Dwarf*, Kalashtar, Elan
  • Mechanosynth: Warforged*
  • Biosynth: Mongrelfolk*, Shifter
  • Zen Fundamentalist: Axani
By Race
  • Aasimar: Holomancer*, Medic
  • Changeling: Morphling*, Powerbard
  • Dwarf:  Psykin*, Magitechnician
  • Elf: Crystal Mage*, Domeskipper
  • Gnome: Magitechnician*, Holomancer
  • Half-Elf: Planeswalker*, Powerbard
  • Half-Orc: Domeskipper*
  • Halfling: Dodger*, Medic
  • Illumian: DivHead*, Powerbard
  • Lifetorn: Medic*
  • Mongrelfolk: Biosynth*
  • Shifter: Biosynth, Morphling
  • Tiefling: Mentalist*
  • Warforged: Morphling, Mechanosynth
  • Kalashtar: Psykin, Mentalist
  • Elan: Psykin, Mentalist
  • Axani: Crystal Mage, Zen Fundamentalist
  • Cansin: Dodger, Domeskipper
Suggestions for filling out the rest of the lists?  I'll need to add in a few more races, clearly.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 09:43:22 AM by sirpercival »
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #144 on: April 30, 2012, 04:02:46 PM »
Lifetorn - Biosynth
Mongrelfolk- Mechanosynth
Tiefling - Planeswalker

Half-Orc Zen Fundamentalist  :P

Or, move Shifter to ZF and give Half-Orc Biosynth.
Move Elf from Domeskipper to ZF

New Races:

Raptoran - Dodger, Domeskipper
Spellscale - Crystal Mage (use Elf racial subs), Planeswalker
Drow (Lesser Drow) - Holomancer, Planeswalker
Qualinesti - DivHead, Magitechnician

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2012, 09:46:34 PM »
Random thought: Something in this setting needs the description "Run and Gun."

Offline Wrex

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #146 on: May 07, 2012, 12:12:10 AM »
Something I noticed is that even though you have all these wonderful guns, no one will really ever use them. Martial characters typically have manuvers and class features geared towards melee, and casters will have better things to do than take pot shots with a laser pistol. The cost of ammo is also pretty damn prohibitive, making a bow a better choice for characters. The only characters I can really see benefiting from these weapons are like the DivHead and Dodger, but the lack of weapon proficencies relegates them to a Revolver and grade 1 HEX cells. The Dodger has Sneak attack, so it would work for him, but the DivHead would be held back by the fairly low damage. Perhaps a gun specialist class is in order?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #147 on: May 07, 2012, 12:16:54 AM »
Definitely, that's a good idea.  I'll add it to my to-do list.

Now, Domeskipper has access to a ranged discipline, so there's that... the other thing is that the guns are good enough that they make an excellent secondary weapon for any character.
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Offline Wrex

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #148 on: May 07, 2012, 12:18:53 AM »
Definitely, that's a good idea.  I'll add it to my to-do list.

Now, Domeskipper has access to a ranged discipline, so there's that... the other thing is that the guns are good enough that they make an excellent secondary weapon for any character.

 :banghead  *Rereads falling star*


I'm...not quite sure how I missed that.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #149 on: May 07, 2012, 09:04:58 AM »
So, I'm working on this gun prc, and it's becoming clear to me that I need to include rules for guns that shoot normal bullets.

The idea I have is that bullet guns (as opposed to energy guns) are psionic items based on Telekinetic Thrust.  However, I still need to figure out how they would actually work, particularly when it comes to things like automatic weapons.

I have two options:
1) Use d20 modern-style gun rules (without the Firearms prof feats)
2) Make some shit up myself, with the help of all you lovely people.

Any suggestions/opinions?
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #150 on: May 07, 2012, 09:34:56 AM »
As long as it's balanced and comparable to the other options that are available (bows, energy guns) and isn't complex for the sake of complexity or different for the sake of being different or "realistic" (PF gun rules), I'll be happy.

If you wanted to make guns balanced against bows, you could, for example, have free action reloading and a gage rating for each gun, and if your Strength is too low you deal less damage or have a penalty to hit (say, a cumulative -2 penalty on attack rolls until you spend a move action to steady your stance). I'd advocate either free action reloading (possibly requiring the Rapid Reload feat if the weapons are more powerful than normal) or ridiculously large clips (50+) so you don't have to worry about breaking full attacks due to rounding errors with how many bullets are still loaded.

For automatic weapons, you can either do Rapid Shot style (ie: more attacks, lower attack bonus) or d20 Modern's spray and pray style (area attack that uses a Reflex save instead of an attack roll). There are probably other options if you want them.

Since these are psionic items, rather than explosive-based, the "ratta-tatta-tat" sound is probably the auditory display of the effect, rather than the actual sound of the explosion that launches the bullet. So you can have a little fun there, with some guns that sound like real guns, some that sound like cartoon sound effects, etc.. Similarly, the muzzle flash is the visual display, not an actual explosion. With no explosion, blanks could actually be perfectly safe, if you want them to exist. Silencers are just display suppressors, like a Concentration check (which proficient users may even be able to suppress on their own).

Offline Sneaky_Sable

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #151 on: May 07, 2012, 09:46:32 AM »
Use d20 modern for guns and gun combat, and roll back the Purchase DC to Gold with the handy chart in d20 Future
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #152 on: May 07, 2012, 10:48:17 AM »
Now that I'm thinking about it, if I'm going psionic, why worry about clips at all?  Just to make it different from the energy guns which have clips.  I'll base it off of Crystal Shard/Swarm of Crystals.  If the numbers below are too expensive to be worthwhile, I can switch it to clips but then you have to buy the ammo which is expensive.

Something like:

~A single-shot pistol is a 1-h simple weapon that does 1d6 piercing as a standard action ranged attack (range increment 50 feet) and costs 2135gp.  You can also get a pump-action rifle which is 2-h and does 2d6 (range increment 80 feet) and costs 3950 gp, and a sniper rifle which is a 2-h exotic weapon and does 4d6 (range increment 110 feet) and costs 7600 gp.
~A semiautomatic pistol is a martial weapon that replicates a single-shot but can be used with iterative attacks, and costs 2335 gp.  The semiautomatic rifle is a martial weapon that similarly replicates the pump-action, and costs 4350 gp.
~A fully-auto pistol is a 1-h exotic weapon which does 3d4 within a 5-foot square as a burst as a standard action, with a range increment of 30 feet; hit AC 10 to get the right square (failure scatters as a thrown weapon); costs 11135 gp.  Auto rifle does 5d4 with a range increment of 50 feet; costs 18350 gp.

Since it's based off Swarm of Crystals, auto weapons do NOT allow a save.  They are also quite expensive, which makes up for it I think.

Thoughts?

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Offline Sneaky_Sable

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #153 on: May 07, 2012, 10:55:52 AM »
These prices remind me of Chris Rock's comedy routine where he solves gun violence by pricing guns cheap, but suggests that every bullet should cost $5,000.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #154 on: May 07, 2012, 12:24:30 PM »
Do the fully autos have a burst fire option to be like the semis or are they volley only? If so, what's the damage, same as the semi?

The autos are a bit too expensive. By the time you can afford them, you have iteratives so the semis will be the weapon of choice.

Crystal shooters: Large initial investment, low subsequent cost (er, none), average benefit.
Energy guns: Medium initial investment, high subsequent cost (energy crystals ain't cheap for the good ones), high benefit (touch attacks, baby).

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #155 on: May 07, 2012, 03:12:12 PM »
Do the fully autos have a burst fire option to be like the semis or are they volley only? If so, what's the damage, same as the semi?

I'm not sure what you mean by burst vs volley.

Quote
The autos are a bit too expensive. By the time you can afford them, you have iteratives so the semis will be the weapon of choice.

How much of a price reduction would make them interesting?  Note that in general you'll have to spend a feat, as well... How else can we make them appealing?

Quote
Crystal shooters: Large initial investment, low subsequent cost (er, none), average benefit.
Energy guns: Medium initial investment, high subsequent cost (energy crystals ain't cheap for the good ones), high benefit (touch attacks, baby).

I like that as a breakdown.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #156 on: May 07, 2012, 03:21:20 PM »
Do the fully autos have a burst fire option to be like the semis or are they volley only? If so, what's the damage, same as the semi?

I'm not sure what you mean by burst vs volley.
Er, the spray of crystal bullets into a square (reflex save) that only the autos have, vs. the normal volley of attacks you get with the semis (or bows and other normal weapons). Sorry, on rereading that, I can see that it's about as clear as a foggy day at the smog factory.

The only problem with guns having such a high cost of entry is that bows do ranged damage just as well and have a very low cost of entry.

Offline littha

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #157 on: May 07, 2012, 04:13:34 PM »
I feel that the cost on the lower end weapons might be a bit (a lot) too high. A weapon that does 1d6 damage with a 50' range increment shouldn't cost 20 times as much as a hand crossbow, even if it is a simple weapon. Sure its better but I would have thought no more than about 200-300gp for a weapon like that. All of its offensive punch is going to come from enchantments and class features anyway.

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #158 on: May 07, 2012, 05:04:36 PM »
An interesting balance would be to increase the starting money of a Magipunk character by a factor of 20.
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Offline Wrex

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Re: Homebrew Setting: Magipunk (brainstorming -- input needed)
« Reply #159 on: May 07, 2012, 06:27:38 PM »
Now that I'm thinking about it, if I'm going psionic, why worry about clips at all?  Just to make it different from the energy guns which have clips.  I'll base it off of Crystal Shard/Swarm of Crystals.  If the numbers below are too expensive to be worthwhile, I can switch it to clips but then you have to buy the ammo which is expensive.

Something like:

~A single-shot pistol is a 1-h simple weapon that does 1d6 piercing as a standard action ranged attack (range increment 50 feet) and costs 2135gp.  You can also get a pump-action rifle which is 2-h and does 2d6 (range increment 80 feet) and costs 3950 gp, and a sniper rifle which is a 2-h exotic weapon and does 4d6 (range increment 110 feet) and costs 7600 gp.
~A semiautomatic pistol is a martial weapon that replicates a single-shot but can be used with iterative attacks, and costs 2335 gp.  The semiautomatic rifle is a martial weapon that similarly replicates the pump-action, and costs 4350 gp.
~A fully-auto pistol is a 1-h exotic weapon which does 3d4 within a 5-foot square as a burst as a standard action, with a range increment of 30 feet; hit AC 10 to get the right square (failure scatters as a thrown weapon); costs 11135 gp.  Auto rifle does 5d4 with a range increment of 50 feet; costs 18350 gp.

Since it's based off Swarm of Crystals, auto weapons do NOT allow a save.  They are also quite expensive, which makes up for it I think.

Thoughts?

Well, they are quite expensive! But the energy weapons are still both better, and cheaper than this, unless you take into account massive ammo expenditures.

I guess it depends on if you want guns new, expensive, flashy weapons, or something the typical thug on the street could afford.  The former is useless as a serious weapon. The latter would be a replacement weapon for bows. Unless you want me to fluff up really badass mechanical bows or something, you would get the disconcerting sight of a tribe of primitives disembowling a major military force at one tenth the cost.'

Edit: Also, no one can manifest swarm of crystals. Not enough psionic goodness!