Class Defense Bonus Redux[3.5/PF]

[veekie]

Class Defense Bonus Redux

Class Defense Bonus is a nice concept, it reduces gear dependency for a character, and makes more of a high level character's combat ability include dodging, parrying and generally getting out of the way of attacks. UA's Class Defense Bonus doesn't quite do it, since it simply substitutes your armor, which is incidentally the least optimization intensive component of AC. So heres my take.

Restrictions
Effects that grant AC bonuses of the types Natural, Insight, Deflection, Sacred and Profane from spells and effects that last longer than 1 hour or are obtained from permanent magic items overlap with this class defense bonus, only the best applies. Permanent bonuses from class features, feats or races are exempt from this restriction.

Class Defense Bonus
Characters gain a Class-typed AC bonus equal to half their BAB from class levels. This bonus applies to touch and flatfooted AC.

Armor Dodge Bonus
Additionally, characters gain a Dodge bonus to AC based on the BAB of their class levels and equipped armor based on the table below. Wearing armor that the character is not proficient with negates this benefit. Any effect that negates a character's dexterity bonus also negates dodge bonuses.
The tables below list the dodge bonus a character gets by class level and type of armor worn. If your character has levels in classes with multiple different BAB progressions, sum up your levels in classes of each progression and add the applicable bonus for each progression together.
Magical sources of armor, such as the Inertial Armor power, the Mage Armor, Greater Mage Armor and Luminous Armor spells, Robes of Armor or Bracers of Armor are treated as if you were wearing armor of the following categories. You are considered proficient with that source of armor.

AC Bonus	Category
+1 to +4	Light Armor
+5 to +6	Medium Armor
Above +6	Heavy Armor

(click to show/hide)

Level	Unarmored	Light	Medium	Heavy
1	+0	+0	+0	+0
2	+1	+0	+0	+0
3	+1	+1	+0	+0
4	+2	+1	+1	+0
5	+2	+1	+1	+1
6	+3	+2	+1	+1
7	+3	+2	+1	+1
8	+4	+2	+2	+1
9	+4	+3	+2	+1
10	+5	+3	+2	+2
11	+5	+3	+2	+2
12	+6	+4	+3	+2
13	+6	+4	+3	+2
14	+7	+4	+3	+2
15	+7	+5	+3	+3
16	+8	+5	+4	+3
17	+8	+5	+4	+3
18	+9	+6	+4	+3
19	+9	+6	+4	+3
20	+10	+6	+5	+4

(click to show/hide)

Level	Unarmored	Light	Medium	Heavy
1	+0	+0	+0	+0
2	+0	+0	+0	+0
3	+1	+0	+0	+0
4	+1	+1	+0	+0
5	+1	+1	+1	+0
6	+2	+1	+1	+1
7	+2	+1	+1	+1
8	+2	+2	+1	+1
9	+3	+2	+1	+1
10	+3	+2	+2	+1
11	+3	+2	+2	+1
12	+4	+3	+2	+2
13	+4	+3	+2	+2
14	+4	+3	+2	+2
15	+5	+3	+3	+2
16	+5	+4	+3	+2
17	+5	+4	+3	+2
18	+6	+4	+3	+3
19	+6	+4	+3	+3
20	+6	+5	+4	+3

(click to show/hide)

Level	Unarmored	Light	Medium	Heavy
1	+0	+0	+0	+0
2	+0	+0	+0	+0
3	+0	+0	+0	+0
4	+1	+0	+0	+0
5	+1	+1	+0	+0
6	+1	+1	+1	+0
7	+1	+1	+1	+0
8	+2	+1	+1	+0
9	+2	+1	+1	+0
10	+2	+2	+1	+0
11	+2	+2	+1	+0
12	+3	+2	+2	+0
13	+3	+2	+2	+0
14	+3	+2	+2	+0
15	+3	+3	+2	+0
16	+4	+3	+2	+0
17	+4	+3	+2	+0
18	+4	+3	+3	+0
19	+4	+3	+3	+0
20	+5	+4	+3	+0

(click to show/hide)

	None	Light	Medium	Heavy
Full BAB	+1/2	+1/3	+1/4	+1/5
3/4 BAB	+1/3	+1/4	+1/5	+1/6
1/2 BAB	+1/4	+1/5	+1/6	+0

Notes:
While the original formula made use of full BAB and a more restrictive control of AC bonuses, 3/4 BAB melee classes like the rogue became literally unable to hit full BAB heavy armored NPCs of the same level out of the box. So it was modified to be 1/2 BAB, with an additional bonus for armor proficiency. As such, the resulting AC should prove adequate in fending off secondary attacks(reducing the lethality of pounces and full attacks), but would play a more limited role against high to-hit primary attacks.

3/4 BAB martial classes suffer from this rule, particularly those who are generally in melee like the factotum, rogue, soulknife, swordsage or the monk. These classes may at DM's discretion, be treated as full BAB classes for the purpose of class defense benefits, or at least, dodge bonuses. 3/4 BAB classes who can provide their own buffs(such as the cleric, druid or psychic warrior) should not be treated the same way.

Finally, 1/2 BAB classes would find their ACs strongly curtailed. They should make ample use of miss chances and other alternative defenses under this change, or stay well out of the line of AC-targeting fire.

Wealth dependency is somewhat alleviated for primary melee characters, but they are advised to back these bonuses up with other types of defenses they can afford using the liberated wealth.

Armor As Damage Reduction(PF-only)
This portion of the houserule currently only considers statistics based on the Pathfinder SRD monsters, using creatures with physical attacks as a primary win condition as a basis. While theoretically it should function in 3.5, it would require adjustments in the values used. This is intended to complement the above rule by enhancing the value of heavy armor, which would lose in relative value due to its encumbrance.

Damage Reduction
All armors, in addition to their normal benefits, grant damage reduction /- equal to half the AC bonus, inclusive of enhancement bonuses. This damage reduction stacks with racial, class and magical sources of damage reduction, unlike other sources of damage reduction. Apply this damage reduction before any stacking damage reduction, if it matters(e.g. Stoneskin)
Adamantine armor increases the armor's damage reduction by the same amount instead of granting a separate damage reduction.

Soak
Warriors trained in armored combat go beyond the passive benefits of armor, developing an instinct for using it to deflect the brunt of an injury. While wearing armor you are proficient with, you gain a Soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus + the armor's AC bonus. If you gain an armor bonus to AC from a source other than armor (such as Bracers of Armor or a Mage Armor spell), you gain a Soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus instead.
Whenever you take any amount of lethal hit point damage, you may convert a number of points of that damage up to your Soak value to nonlethal damage.
Soak does not convert damage from starvation, thirst, or Afflictions (such as poison). Suffocation and drowning do not deal damage and thus similarly bypasses Soak. In the case of damage sources that inflict damage multiple times over time and don't fall under the above headers (such as an Acid Arrow spell or a particularly hostile environment like the Elemental Plane of Fire), Soak converts the first instance of damage normally, but does not apply to subsequent instances of damage.
Wearing Broken armor reduces soak by half.
Old Version

(click to show/hide)

Class Defense Bonus Redux

Class Defense Bonus is a nice concept, it reduces gear dependency for a character, and makes more of a high level character's combat ability include dodging, parrying and generally getting out of the way of attacks. UA's Class Defense Bonus doesn't quite do it, since it simply substitutes your armor, which is incidentally the least optimization intensive component of AC. So heres my take.

Restrictions
Effects that grant AC bonuses of the types Natural, Insight, Deflection, Sacred and Profane from spells and effects that last longer than 1 hour or are obtained from permanent magic items overlap with this class defense bonus, only the best applies. Permanent bonuses from class features, feats or races are exempt from this restriction.

Class Defense Bonus
Characters gain a Class-typed AC bonus equal to half their BAB from class levels. This bonus applies to touch and flatfooted AC.

Armor Dodge Bonus
Additionally, characters gain a Dodge bonus to AC based on the BAB of their class levels and equipped armor based on the table below. Wearing armor that the character is not proficient with negates this benefit. Any effect that negates a character's dexterity bonus also negates dodge bonuses.
The tables below list the dodge bonus a character gets by class level and type of armor worn. If your character has levels in classes with multiple different BAB progressions, sum up your levels in classes of each progression and add the applicable bonus for each progression together.

(click to show/hide)

Level	Unarmored	Light	Medium	Heavy
1	+0	+0	+0	+0
2	+1	+0	+0	+0
3	+1	+1	+0	+0
4	+2	+1	+1	+0
5	+2	+1	+1	+1
6	+3	+2	+1	+1
7	+3	+2	+1	+1
8	+4	+2	+2	+1
9	+4	+3	+2	+1
10	+5	+3	+2	+2
11	+5	+3	+2	+2
12	+6	+4	+3	+2
13	+6	+4	+3	+2
14	+7	+4	+3	+2
15	+7	+5	+3	+3
16	+8	+5	+4	+3
17	+8	+5	+4	+3
18	+9	+6	+4	+3
19	+9	+6	+4	+3
20	+10	+6	+5	+4

(click to show/hide)

Level	Unarmored	Light	Medium	Heavy
1	+0	+0	+0	+0
2	+0	+0	+0	+0
3	+1	+0	+0	+0
4	+1	+1	+0	+0
5	+1	+1	+1	+0
6	+2	+1	+1	+1
7	+2	+1	+1	+1
8	+2	+2	+1	+1
9	+3	+2	+1	+1
10	+3	+2	+2	+1
11	+3	+2	+2	+1
12	+4	+3	+2	+2
13	+4	+3	+2	+2
14	+4	+3	+2	+2
15	+5	+3	+3	+2
16	+5	+4	+3	+2
17	+5	+4	+3	+2
18	+6	+4	+3	+3
19	+6	+4	+3	+3
20	+6	+5	+4	+3

(click to show/hide)

Level	Unarmored	Light	Medium	Heavy
1	+0	+0	+0	+0
2	+0	+0	+0	+0
3	+0	+0	+0	+0
4	+1	+0	+0	+0
5	+1	+1	+0	+0
6	+1	+1	+1	+0
7	+1	+1	+1	+0
8	+2	+1	+1	+0
9	+2	+1	+1	+0
10	+2	+2	+1	+0
11	+2	+2	+1	+0
12	+3	+2	+2	+0
13	+3	+2	+2	+0
14	+3	+2	+2	+0
15	+3	+3	+2	+0
16	+4	+3	+2	+0
17	+4	+3	+2	+0
18	+4	+3	+3	+0
19	+4	+3	+3	+0
20	+5	+4	+3	+0

(click to show/hide)

	None	Light	Medium	Heavy
Full BAB	+1/2	+1/3	+1/4	+1/5
3/4 BAB	+1/3	+1/4	+1/5	+1/6
1/2 BAB	+1/4	+1/5	+1/6	+0

Notes:
While the original formula made use of full BAB and a more restrictive control of AC bonuses, 3/4 BAB melee classes like the rogue became literally unable to hit full BAB heavy armored NPCs of the same level out of the box. So it was modified to be 1/2 BAB, with an additional bonus for armor proficiency. As such, the resulting AC should prove adequate in fending off secondary attacks(reducing the lethality of pounces and full attacks), but would play a more limited role against high to-hit primary attacks.

3/4 BAB martial classes suffer from this rule, particularly those who are generally in melee like the factotum, rogue, soulknife swordsage or the monk. These classes may at DM's discretion, be treated as full BAB classes for the purpose of class defense benefits, or at least, dodge bonuses. 3/4 BAB classes who can provide their own buffs(such as the cleric, druid or psychic warrior) should not be treated the same way.

Finally, 1/2 BAB classes would find their ACs strongly curtailed. They should make ample use of miss chances and other alternative defenses under this change, or stay well out of the line of AC-targeting fire.

Wealth dependency is somewhat alleviated for primary melee characters, but they are advised to back these bonuses up with other types of defenses they can afford using the liberated wealth.

[veekie]

Something that was brought up by a friend. Any suggestions for handling non-armor Armor AC sources like Mage Armor and Bracers of Armor? Any other sources I missed?

[Tarkisflux]

The concern is the dodge bonus interaction right? Could make it count as an armor type based on its bonus. +1 to +4 is light, +5 and up is medium. I'd suggest stopping medium at +6 and doing heavy at +7, but that hurts the half bab classes a lot. Plus, a full bab with bracers +8 instead of full plate is only getting a +1 to dodge bonus, so it doesn't look like anything too terribad.

[veekie]

Good idea. Also thinking of partially combining this with Armor As Damage Reduction(using universal BAB-scaling damage reduction,), and noticed that PF monsters deal a LOT less damage than 3.5 monsters hmm. No easy universal rule there...

[veekie]

Revising the above to this

Armor Dodge Bonus
Additionally, characters gain a Dodge bonus to AC based on the BAB of their class levels and equipped armor based on the table below. Wearing armor that the character is not proficient with negates this benefit. Any effect that negates a character's dexterity bonus also negates dodge bonuses.
The tables below list the dodge bonus a character gets by class level and type of armor worn. If your character has levels in classes with multiple different BAB progressions, sum up your levels in classes of each progression and add the applicable bonus for each progression together.
Magical sources of armor, such as the Inertial Armor power, the Mage Armor, Greater Mage Armor and Luminous Armor spells, Robes of Armor or Bracers of Armor are treated as if you were wearing armor of the following categories. You are considered proficient with that source of armor.

AC Bonus	Category
+1 to +4	Light Armor
+5 to +6	Medium Armor
Above +6	Heavy Armor

And adding this

Armor As Damage Reduction(PF-only)
This portion of the houserule currently only considers statistics based on the Pathfinder SRD monsters, using creatures with physical attacks as a primary win condition as a basis. While theoretically it should function in 3.5, it would require adjustments in the values used. This is intended to complement the above rule by enhancing the value of heavy armor, which would lose in relative value due to its encumbrance.

Damage Reduction
All armors, in addition to their normal benefits, grant damage reduction /- equal to half the AC bonus, inclusive of enhancement bonuses. This damage reduction stacks with racial, class and magical sources of damage reduction, unlike other sources of damage reduction. Apply this damage reduction before any stacking damage reduction, if it matters(e.g. Stoneskin)
Adamantine armor increases the armor's damage reduction by the same amount instead of granting a separate damage reduction.

Soak
Warriors trained in armored combat go beyond the passive benefits of armor, developing an instinct for using it to deflect the brunt of an injury. While wearing armor you are proficient with, you gain a Soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus + the armor's AC bonus. If you gain an armor bonus to AC from a source other than armor (such as Bracers of Armor or a Mage Armor spell), you gain a Soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus instead.
Whenever you take any amount of lethal hit point damage, you may convert a number of points of that damage up to your Soak value to nonlethal damage.
Soak does not convert damage from starvation, thirst, or Afflictions (such as poison). Suffocation and drowning do not deal damage and thus similarly bypasses Soak. In the case of damage sources that inflict damage multiple times over time and don't fall under the above headers (such as an Acid Arrow spell or a particularly hostile environment like the Elemental Plane of Fire), Soak converts the first instance of damage normally, but does not apply to subsequent instances of damage.
Wearing Broken armor reduces soak by half.

Thoughts?

[Garryl]

A character in heavy armor is actually debuffed by getting a Mage Armor spell or Bracers of Armor +1. As written, the soak value of just your BaB overrides your soak value of BaB + armor if you have any armor bonuses to AC from non-armor sources. I suspect the intent is that if you aren't wearing armor (with which you are proficient) you can still get a lesser soak through armor spells and effects, correct?

[veekie]

Yes, somehow I missed that wording loophole. Dammit.

[Garryl]

Similarly, wearing Broken Armor is worse than being unarmored (although that may be your intention) as the loss of soak from halving may reduce it to less than your BaB (which is what you'd get for just having Mage Armor or whatever).

Bracers of Armor +1 and other very small armor bonuses lower the AC of a level 10+ (or level 8) full BaB character.

[veekie]

Broken Armor works as intended yes, its basically so that creatures that can't breach Soak can try to Sunder the armor and kill the victim off after a knockout. Though theres also the issue of someone with Broken armor and then a Mage Armor on top.

How about

Warriors trained in armored combat go beyond the passive benefits of armor, developing an instinct for using it to deflect the brunt of an injury. While wearing armor you are proficient with, you gain a Soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus + the armor's AC bonus. If you are not wearing armor you are proficient with, but gain an armor bonus to AC from a source other than armor (such as Bracers of Armor or a Mage Armor spell), you gain a Soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus instead.
Whenever you take any amount of lethal hit point damage, you may convert a number of points of that damage up to your Soak value to nonlethal damage.
Soak does not convert damage from starvation, thirst, or Afflictions (such as poison). Suffocation and drowning do not deal damage and thus similarly bypasses Soak. In the case of damage sources that inflict damage multiple times over time and don't fall under the above headers (such as an Acid Arrow spell or a particularly hostile environment like the Elemental Plane of Fire), Soak converts the first instance of damage normally, but does not apply to subsequent instances of damage.
Using Broken armor reduces soak gained from that armor by half. It does not affect other sources of soak.

Theres still edge cases of multiple armors but those are rare enough to dismiss I hope.

[Garryl]

Broken Armor works as intended yes, its basically so that creatures that can't breach Soak can try to Sunder the armor and kill the victim off after a knockout. Though theres also the issue of someone with Broken armor and then a Mage Armor on top.

3.5 Sunder doesn't work against armor. You can attack held objects only. PF Sunder allows worn objects as well, though. A coup de grace is valid either way.

How about

Warriors trained in armored combat go beyond the passive benefits of armor, developing an instinct for using it to deflect the brunt of an injury. While wearing armor you are proficient with, you gain a Soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus + the armor's AC bonus. If you are not wearing armor you are proficient with, but gain an armor bonus to AC from a source other than armor (such as Bracers of Armor or a Mage Armor spell), you gain a Soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus instead.
Whenever you take any amount of lethal hit point damage, you may convert a number of points of that damage up to your Soak value to nonlethal damage.
Soak does not convert damage from starvation, thirst, or Afflictions (such as poison). Suffocation and drowning do not deal damage and thus similarly bypasses Soak. In the case of damage sources that inflict damage multiple times over time and don't fall under the above headers (such as an Acid Arrow spell or a particularly hostile environment like the Elemental Plane of Fire), Soak converts the first instance of damage normally, but does not apply to subsequent instances of damage.
Using Broken armor reduces soak gained from that armor by half. It does not affect other sources of soak.

Theres still edge cases of multiple armors but those are rare enough to dismiss I hope.

This wording still denies you the soak value from magic effects while wearing armor, which may be relevant if your armor is sundered.
How about this instead?

If you have an armor bonus to your armor class, you gain a soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus. If it is from actual armor with which you are proficient, add the armor's armor bonus to that soak value. If you have multiple soak values, they do not stack; use only the highest one.
Broken armor provides only half its normal soak value.

Are you at all concerned with soak essentially being free DR/resistances to undead, constructs, and other creatures that are immune to nonlethal damage?

[veekie]

3.5 Sunder doesn't work against armor. You can attack held objects only. PF Sunder allows worn objects as well, though. A coup de grace is valid either way.

Point, though the Soak values are entirely computed only with PF statistics, probably way off usability on 3.5.

If you have an armor bonus to your armor class, you gain a soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus. If it is from actual armor with which you are proficient, add the armor's armor bonus to that soak value. If you have multiple soak values, they do not stack; use only the highest one.
Broken armor provides only half its normal soak value.

Looks good with a minor tweak of wording for clarity. How about:

If you have an armor bonus to your armor class, you gain a soak value equal to your Base Attack Bonus. If the armor bonus is from actual armor with which you are proficient, add the armor's armor bonus to that soak value. If you have multiple soak values, they do not stack; use only the highest one.
Broken armor provides only half its normal soak value.

Finally, pretty much only Con-less creatures are immune to subdual as I understand it. Most of those are supposed to be tough so I guess it helps make them actually tough!

Should be strictly regulated on PC undead with Unholy Toughness though.