Magic vs Mundane: Third Wheel Solution?

[SorO_Lost]

Shit, even that gaudy bastard Elminster has one.

He lost access to magic and still had one*.

*The arc where the gods lost their powers and Mysta imbued him with her power which some how meant no magic and we got a story of three harpers kicking ass until Ele poped in like OMFG, a fight without me winning it? Not happening.

[veekie]

*The arc where the gods lost their powers and Mysta imbued him with her power which some how meant no magic and we got a story of three harpers kicking ass until Ele poped in like OMFG, a fight without me winning it? Not happening.

To be precise he had too much magic so using any of it would make him asplode along with the next mile of landscape. Fortunately he had been spending his downtime crafting artifacts!

[X-Codes]

Jeez, SorO.  Just say you were wrong.  You're embarrassing yourself.  The only one of your multiple crappy arguments even worth responding to is the Dire Tortoise, from Sandstorm, which if you try to use with a lower-level Polymorph spell you'll have to spend that surprise round dismissing your Polymorph spell.  You can use Shapechange, sure, but then you're still using a 9th-level spell every 3 hours, only now you're a giant fucking tortoise all the time.

[spacemonkey555]

I thought the problem with foresight was that mindblank blocked it, since you're immune to divinations.

[SorO_Lost]

Rainbow Falls^CM allows you to triple the duration of Shapechange for 2k. since you have no idea what the spell does based on your comment about being a turtle all the time (changing shapes is a free action once per round) I'd like you mind you that's 30 minutes per caster level. CL 20 means the spell lasts a total of ten hours, not three. Not to mention that unlike Foresight, Shapechange has thousands of uses outside and inside of combat that goes far beyond a +2 bonus to attack and AC.

I thought the problem with foresight was that mindblank blocked it, since you're immune to divinations.

I left that one out, I really don't want to hear him bring up old unsettled debates in an effort to persist in his beliefs about Foresight.

Jeez, SorO.  Just say you were wrong.  You're embarrassing yourself.

I've conformed to your ignore WoL and had to listen to you try to pass Foresight being better than Shapechange as a result.

Foresight sucks and you are to under qualified to discuss this matter. Bye.

[X-Codes]

You know, this would go a whole lot better if you didn't start from the assumption that everyone else is an idiot, especially when you horribly fail at the rules all the fucking time.  I know you have to use Shapechange with the turtle because then you can use your free action to become a caster after, and that's why I explicitly stated that it didn't work with Polymorph.  You have to be a turtle all the fucking time outside of combat (you know, when Wizards do important shit) because otherwise you won't have the ability in the first place, and you don't get your surprise round.  Duh?

I thought the problem with foresight was that mindblank blocked it, since you're immune to divinations.

It's not blanket immunity to the divination school, it's immunity to stuff like Detect spells, Scrying, etc.

[Sinfire Titan]

Tone it down you two.

[spacemonkey555]

I thought the problem with foresight was that mindblank blocked it, since you're immune to divinations.

It's not blanket immunity to the divination school, it's immunity to stuff like Detect spells, Scrying, etc.

This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it.

Seems odd to say it doesn't protect against information gathering by divination spells, unless you're going to say it only protects the subject's mind specifically, in which case why does the spell description cover scrying at all?

[Tiltowait]

Yes, of course. Because a wizard at level 12 is absolutely unbeatable. 
Sure.

Unbeatable? No. But Wizard vs Monk at 12 is like Trogdor the Burninator vs Bob. Try as you might, the best Bob can manage is to get to the same general area as Trogdor and futilely attempt to attack him before being destroyed.

Casting AMF on yourself is an excellent way to ensure that you will not get anywhere near Trogdor, and that you will still be burninated.

Rogues are only very slightly better than Monks at this.

To answer the question of the OP, about the only way you are going to do it is with a Cleric. Clerics can get themselves immune or near immune to magic rather easily but they don't have miss chances in most cases and their AC is not extremely high so non magical characters can still likely hurt them. Those characters would have to be very well designed to be able to stand up to them, but it is possible, and that way you'd have a character strong against magic but not entirely invulnerable to lesser threats.

[X-Codes]

Seems odd to say it doesn't protect against information gathering by divination spells, unless you're going to say it only protects the subject's mind specifically, in which case why does the spell description cover scrying at all?

Jesus fucking christ, is everyone trying imitate Basket Burner?  It doesn't say "immunity to Divination spells."  If it said "immunity to Divination spells" then you'd have some kind of standing to be snarky on, instead it specifically calls out "information gathering by divination spells."  When you cast Foresight, you're not gathering information on yourself.  When someone casts Unluck on you, they're not gathering information on you.  Mind Blank absolutely does not provide immunity to these spells.  On the other hand, Detect Alignment, Detect Thoughts, Scrying, and others are all divinations attempting to gather information on you.

[spacemonkey555]

Jesus fucking christ, is everyone trying imitate Basket Burner? 

Seems like you have it covered.

It doesn't say "immunity to Divination spells."  If it said "immunity to Divination spells" then you'd have some kind of standing to be snarky on, instead it specifically calls out "information gathering by divination spells."  When you cast Foresight, you're not gathering information on yourself.  When someone casts Unluck on you, they're not gathering information on you.  Mind Blank absolutely does not provide immunity to these spells.  On the other hand, Detect Alignment, Detect Thoughts, Scrying, and others are all divinations attempting to gather information on you.

Wasn't trying to be snarky, was asking for the logic behind your opinion. Still seems like an unfounded assumption. Since you're too distraught to communicate effectively at the moment, I withdraw my request (which I thought was reasonably polite).

[X-Codes]

Since you're too distraught to communicate effectively at the moment, I withdraw my request (which I thought was reasonably polite).

I'm sorry that you're incapable of understanding plain English.

[veekie]

Guys, back on topic.

[zugschef]

the point behind something like foresight is to predict the future and not read someone's mind. thus, i really don't get how you figure mind blank would protect against foresight.

[SorO_Lost]

the point behind something like foresight is to predict the future and not read someone's mind. thus, i really don't get how you figure mind blank would protect against foresight.

Because it's easily debatable. Like for one thing, Foresight predicting the future is an assumption really. You receive instant warnings about impending danger, well when is now? Did it warn you this morning or six seconds ago? The latter of text where you have to immediately communicate with another creature suggests the divination isn't predicting any farther than your coach does. In fact, the whole instant warning thing really comes off as Spider Sense to me, you instantly know an attack is coming the moment it happens, not before.

And did you know you don't get all the warnings about an invisible attacker attacker? You lose the AC bonus if you're Flat-Footed and you most certainly are Flat-Footed to any creature with Total Concealment even if you know they are there. So why is it Foresight isn't giving you usable advice? This glaring hole in things gives the benefit of doubt before you even more into more specific interaction with other spells or effects.

Then the problem child, Mind Blank, pops in and says Divinations cannot tell you a damn thing about me. And it's not simply divinations either, even effects on the level of your god him self intervening (miracle) or you rewriting reality (wish) could tell you what someone wearing, where they going, or how they are stabbing you (the pain in your back might though).

Mind blank, like FoM, provides a massive blanket of immunity that is mostly undetailed. Foresight is a poorly written spell that provides some defensive buffs. You could spend hours bickering back and forth over it.

TL;DR: If you can't get past the names of Foresight and Mind Blank to discuss the rules you'll be at this longer.

[Jackinthegreen]

Looking over Foresight, it does seem like Spidey Sense is the closest analogy.  Impending danger means an immediate threat, so something like an arrow whizzing towards you would qualify.  Knowing what the offender will do before the fight begins, however, wouldn't seem to qualify.

Mind Blank...  Might work against Foresight.  Foresight counts as information gathered from a divination spell or effect, which Mind Blank protects against.

[X-Codes]

What Foresight grants is a short, defined list of combat bonuses.  Mind Blank doesn't interact with it at all.

[zugschef]

this is just ridiculous... mind blank protects a single individual from mind-affecting effects and divinations. foresight grants the following effects:

This spell grants you a powerful sixth sense in relation to yourself or another. Once foresight is cast, you receive instantaneous warnings of impending danger or harm to the subject of the spell. You are never surprised or flat-footed. In addition, the spell gives you a general idea of what action you might take to best protect yourself and gives you a +2 insight bonus to AC and Reflex saves. This insight bonus is lost whenever you would lose a Dexterity bonus to AC.

now what has one to do with the other? yeah, that's right. nothing.

[Jackinthegreen]

Foresight is a divination.  It grants the target information in the form of "instantaneous warnings of impending danger or harm."  To me that definitely sounds like it's gathering information and relaying it to the subject.

Mind Blank reads:

The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.

Emphasis mine.  Mind Blank won't dispel a Foresight or anything, but the subject of Foresight seems like it can't benefit from the spell in relation to a threat that has Mind Blank on it.  It can't gather the needed information.

[Kethrian]

Foresight is gathering information on an attack or other danger, and doesn't care about who or what is causing it.  Does Mind Blank also shield the repercussions of your attacks?  If not, then it isn't shielding what Foresight is looking for; type, vector, and area of the attack are what it looks at.

If Spiderman's spidey sense is being used as a comparison, then a Mind Blanked creature using natural weapons/unarmed attacks would be undetectable to Foresight.  Otherwise Foresight will "see" the weapon or spell, regardless of the wielder/caster, and be able to react appropriately.  Spiderman's spidey sense could not detect Venom's punches, but when he threw a forklift, Spiderman was able to sense it.  That's the closest I would ever allow Mind Blank to work against Foresight.