Author Topic: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted  (Read 9965 times)

Offline Mister Freeze

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Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« on: January 04, 2012, 04:50:01 AM »
So, my first incantatrix build (not to be confused with the ice assassin one that I've be piddling about with as a thought experiment) finally got looked at by the DM who's going to run the game it's going to be used in.  He's OK with high power, but he's challenged me to not use Dragon or cross setting material.  Cross setting material was easy to abolish because my only loss is a talisman of 12 moons (I think, let me know if you see anything else), but losing dragon nixes loresong and my hummingbird.  Item familiars, custom magic items, and chaos shuffle are the only other things explicitly banned, off the top of my head, but those restrictions apply to everyone.  edit: masterwork tools and aid another for spellcraft are also not allowed.  :banghead

My primary dilemma is with spellcraft (same ol' story with any incantatrix), namely, whether there is a better way to hit a DC of 63, to extend and persist 9th level spells.  Here's where I'm at:

23   Ranks
15   Int mod
10   Take 10
5   Wieldskill (wand, competence bonus)
2   Synergy (arcana)
8   Divine insight (wand, insight bonus)
2   Share talents (with familiar, PHB2 spell)
65   Total (63 target)


Greater heroism isn't an option because it's mind affecting.  However, I could be convinced otherwise if there's a good way to replace veil of undeath and mind blank, but that combo is appealing because mind blank is 24 hours out of the box, so it's only 3 metamagic effect uses to get 48 hours of each.  I have a wasted (for me, but not for allies) +2 morale bonus to attack rolls, saves, and skill checks from my admiral's bicorne, so if I could get all those immunities from other sources, I'd be interested.  I would also love to eliminate the wands; mechanus mind is a minutes/level wizard spell that provides a +2 competence bonus to int based checks, so the wieldskill wand is realistically only providing +3.  Master's touch is out there as a possibility, but each casting only affects a single check, so I'd need to cast it multiple times a day, and it's an insight bonus, I'd need +4 from another source to balance out the loss from divine insight.  I'm aware of the plethora of feats, but I'd prefer to avoid them if possible.  Divine spells are an option, but a costly one, as I can only cast 4 every day, thanks to miracle from the luck domain and vest of the archmagi's pearl of power ability.  Improvisation is the leading candidate if it comes down to burning miracle uses, but that hurts because it hogs a use of miracle every day, which is a big deal when 48 hour buffs are in play.  A stone of good luck is an easy +1, but is expensive at 20k.  What would you do if you were trying to hit 63 on spellcraft?  A custom runestaff was suggested to have improvisation, and is still being pondered by the DM.  He's being pretty tough, I give it a 50/50 shot, so for now.  I also am trying to get nixie's grace, grace, and glibness onto that same runestaff.  What other good bard spells are there that I could put on, that aren't mind affecting?

Here's the build:
Skill focus (history), lucky start, and iron will from magical locations
Wizard   Arcane disciple (destiny), imp. init. (replaces scribe scroll), mother cyst (flaw), arcane disciple (luck) (flaw)
Wizard   
Wizard   Empower spell
Wizard   
Wizard   Domain power (spot as class skill)
Incantatrix   Maximize spell, extend spell
Incantatrix   
Incantatrix   
Incantatrix   Persistent spell, energy sub: fire
Incantatrix   
Incantatrix   
Incantatrix   Searing spell, energy admix: fire
Incantatrix   
Incantatrix   
Mindbender   Mindsight
Incantatrix   Quicken spell
Olin Gisir   Transdimensional spell
Loremaster   Uncanny forethought, spell mastery
Fatespinner   
Fatespinner   

The fatespinner levels are very expendable if anyone has other ideas.  I couldn't think of anything else, the cost of entry to fatespinner is trivial, and I figured it was better than more loremaster or olin gisir. 

32 point buy, mental stats put to 18/15/15, venerable to make them 21/18/18.  Shapechange form will be chronotyryn.  Current stats floating at 30, 28, 29, 40, 26, 24

Magic items (I like to have 100k left over to be able to purchase spells and components, so cuts are coming possibly):

2,000   Dragon spirit cincture (add 1 die to breath weapon damage)
51,000   Admiral's bicorne (+5 to charisma based checks, not optimal, but so stylish I can't say no, plus allies will appreciate the +2 morale bonus to attacks, saves, and skills)
20,000   Bead of karma
20,000   Ring of arcane might
110,000   4 int
2,000   Handy haversack
200,000   Archmage vest (any level pearl of power 3x day, put away after buffing stage, can't be worn with tabard of valor)
27,500   1 dex
12,000   Mantle of second chances (1/day reroll anything, one of the few ways to reroll non-d20 rolls)
30,000   Blinding strike soulfire bracers (+2 init, negative energy immunity)
2,000   Frog God's fane (skill focus: history for loremaster)
3,000   Third eye clarity (negate daze as immediate action 1/day)
3,000   Otyugh hole (iron will for incanatrix)
8,600   Spellblade (keyed to transmute rock to mud, because of stone body)
12,000   Ring of spell battle
30,000   Ioun stone CL
4,000   Sandals of the vagabond (+2 init)
40,000   Amulet of second chances (redo entire turn - IE, cast vision twice, then use this to reset your turn to exp back while retaining knowledge of "lost" actions)
3,000   Fortifying bedroll (8 hours of sleep in one hour)
16,000   Tabard of valor (grants mettle ability when HP is half or lower, UMDed to always be active)
10,080   Band of spell enhancement (+2 CL 1/day, use on alternating days for algid enhancement and consumptive field)
4,000   Marvelous pigments (any mundane item under 2,000 GP can be painted in 10 minutes)
3,000   Gloves of object reading (if you can get a possession from someone, this can give you enough info about them to make the vision spell damning to the target, because while they might have mind blank, the item doesn't, and vision gets around mind blank for the same reason true strike does)
30,000   Shriver (kickass magical location)
5,400   6 bags of tricks (to feed consumptive field)
750   Wieldskill wand
4,500   Divine insight wand
6,000   Court of thieves (magical location that grants a luck feat, for lucky start, replaced ring of anticipation so I could wear ring of arcane might 24/7)
29,300   Rod of piercing cold
24,300   Rod of elemental substitution
713,430   
46,570   Remainder for spells


The only magic item slot that won't be in use is the body one normally occupied by armor or robes.  Nothing looks all that appealing, but I could be convinced otherwise pretty easily. 

Caster level notes:
20   base CL
2   Spell enhancement band
2   Spell enhancer spell
4   Bead of karma
1   Frostfell spell (snowcasting means everything benefits)
1   Arcane might ring
1   Ioun stone
1   Magic tattoo
2   Terran brandy
34   Consumptive field CL
17   Consumptive field bonus
51   Key buff CL (using spell enhancement band and spell enhancer on spells such as algid enhancement)
47   Regular buff  CL (extended hours/level spells last 4 days, the 2 hours lost on the 4th day are used for recovery)
38   All day CL (only base 20, tattoo, and consumptive field will be around all day)
61   SR (skin of the steel dragon is persistable and grants CL+10 SR)
18   Algid (CL/3+1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls)
58   DC to dispel buffs (11+CL without spell enhancement band and spell enhancer spell)

Initiative (I also roll 4d20 on initiative checks and prefer to not waste an action on nerveskitter):
2   Bracers
4   Unicorn heart spell
8   Dex
25   Moment of prescience
4   Improved initiative
2   Vagabond sandals
46

Primary attack mode:
1.  Use snowcasting to add the cold descriptor to dragon breath, instant metamagic to add persistant spell without increasing its level, and a piercing cold rod to make the cold damage...piercing. 
2.  Use metamagic effect to add the following feats, with the new spell level and spellcraft DC in parentheses: energy admix: fire (7, 39, also adds fire descriptor for searing spell), maximize spell (9, 45), extend spell (10, 48), transdimensional spell (11, 51), searing spell (12, 54).
3.  Cast breath weapon admixture twice, choosing acid and electricity, using energy substitution on them for fire and cold.  Persist and extend them. 
4.  Damage math:
10d8 piercing cold (base)
11d8 piercing cold (cincture)
11d8 piercing cold, 11d8 searing fire (admix feat)
88 piercing cold, 88 searing fire (maximize)
88+5d8 piercing cold, 88+5d8 searing fire (empower)
264+15d8 piercing cold, 88+5d8 searing fire (admix spell 1)
264+15d8 piercing cold, 264+15d8 searing fire (admix spell 2)

If you assume each d8 is 4.5, that works out to 663 damage.  I'm aware that there's no good basis for how to calculate damage when you start adding the abilities I have together, I curious how others would calculate it?  Also, reflex DC will be:

10   Base
4   Spell level
2   Mystic surge spell
1   Dragon spirit cincture
15   Int mod
32   Total

Other than heighten breath and heighten spell, what ways are there to increase this?

I've returned to boosting spot checks, after becoming aware that if you can hit 80 on them, any illusion that's visual can be recognized with a DC 80 spot check, and you don't need to interact with it, so it happens automatically.  Here's where I'm at on that front:

10   racial (chronotyryn)
8   untyped (raptor essence)
10   Insight (vision of the omniscient eye)
6   familiar (gyrfalcon, doubled thanks to being an elf)
2   Untyped (share talents)
23   Ranks
8   Wisdom
67   Total

Notably absent is a competence bonus.  What's the best source of one of those? My only open magic item slot is for robes/armor at the moment.  Using other slots would be a tough call, I'm very reluctant to give up my third eye: clarity, and there's lots of other great hats that would probably take precedence.  A couple armors have bonuses, but are expensive and would force me to negate their ASF somehow, so that all adds up to it not being worth it, probably.  Robe of eyes is way too expensive.  Embrace the wild and eyes of the raptor would probably be an inefficient use of miracle.  Ideally I'd like to get +8 or +13 more so that I can take 10 and hit 85-90, to give good buffer room for the -1 penalty per 20' of distance (thanks to dragonsight).  I would also love it if there were a spell that could negate the penalties to spot brought on by weather.  Something like snowsight, but that also works in storms not consisting of snow, or fog, etc.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 09:46:19 AM by Mister Freeze »

Offline Tshern

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 12:07:32 PM »
Knowledges: Scrolls of Uncertain Provenance may prove more useful than the wand at higher levels. 8k for a +5 competence bonus. Also, masterwork tools give +2 circumstance bonus for 50gp.

Initiative: Warning does not stack with Moment of Prescience. Eager would though, it's +2 unnamed bonus.
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Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 12:52:43 PM »
I know you said to avoid feats, but Item Familiar has so much utility while doubling your base ranks.

Edit: Spot check failed on Item familiar being explicitly banned. ^.^
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 12:57:22 PM by Rebel7284 »

Offline Mister Freeze

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 01:33:28 PM »
Bah, I could have sworn warning was untyped.  Maybe the free action draw from eager will be useful, I guess. 

Offline Kremti

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 03:28:05 PM »
Instead of wands, considered staff/runestaff?  They use *your* caster level, so it works great with Improvisation, and they are good for "Daily Buffing Spells" as they are rather limited in number of times you can use them.

Haven't bothered to price it out, but might be something to think about.

-K

Offline Mister Freeze

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 04:04:03 PM »
That had never occurred to me.  In looking at the MIC rules for creating them it does seem like a superior option.  What's hilarious is that it says the lowest spell in a runestaff should be 3rd level, but its creation example contains a 1st level spell.  This would be useful for getting a few bard spells into my buffstack, too.

edit: Runestaff of grace:
Nixie's grace 1/day (+8 enhancement to charisma, among other things)
Glibness 1/day (these are not the droids you are looking for)
Grace 1/day (+2 sacred bonus to dex, you radiate light)
Improvisation 1/day (2xCL pool of points to use on skill checks and other things)
Lightfoot 1/day (you don't provoke AoOs)

Cost, if I'm doing it right, should be 7200+900+400+100+100=8700, which is pretty darn good.

Seem coherent enough to pass muster?  "If you want to create a runestaff of your own design, it should have two to five arcane spells associated with it, and the spells should be thematically linked in some way."
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 06:44:38 PM by Mister Freeze »

Offline Tr011

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 06:20:46 PM »
23   Ranks
15   Int mod
10   Take 10
5   Wieldskill (wand, competence bonus)
2   Synergy (arcana)
8   Divine insight (wand, insight bonus)
63   Total (63 target)

MW Tools for +2.
If you got 23 ranks, your familiar should be able to get you +4 to your spellcraft check by Aid Another action (I think CAdv expanded the rules for aiding above +2, DC is 30 for +4, +23 ranks -1/-2 int taking 10 is easy for any familiar).

Offline Mister Freeze

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 06:42:17 PM »
I'm not sure about aid another due to this: "In many cases, a character’s help won’t be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.  In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results you can’t aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn’t achieve alone."

I'll ask, but my gut is it won't be allowed due to the first part.  I had tried MW tool (gloves of dweomercraft) before, but it got shot down, which is strange I think, but at least that's only +2.  I forgot to mention that in the OP.

edit: aid another isn't approved - I think the fact that I've already found a way to 63 might have factored into the decision, but one way or the other, it's out.  Lightfoot was also booted off my runestaff because it's an assassin spell, and my DM wasn't fond of a 6th level bard spell and an assassin spell being on the same item.  Suggestions for a 5th bard spell for my staff?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 11:21:24 PM by Mister Freeze »

Offline spacemonkey555

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2012, 08:41:24 AM »
You have mantle of second chances at 12k gold, it's only 6k.

Offline Mister Freeze

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2012, 10:06:31 AM »
I just double checked, it is 12k, you probably were looking at the cost to create, which is 6k.  Still a good price, and it will look oh so stylish with my admiral's bicorne.  :D

Also, I've updated several things in the first post, notably I've realized I can save a feat with a rod.  I also discovered the share talent spell in PHB 2, which thanks to my familiar, grants me an untyped +2 to all skills in which I have a rank. 

Offline Kremti

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Re: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2012, 12:04:32 PM »
As for a Bard Spell to put in the Runestaff...

How about either Ruin Delver's Fortune (Persistable!), or, Opportune Dodge?

-K

Offline spacemonkey555

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Re: Incantatrix round 2, help and review wanted
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2012, 02:26:21 PM »
I just double checked, it is 12k, you probably were looking at the cost to create, which is 6k.  Still a good price, and it will look oh so stylish with my admiral's bicorne.  :D

Ah I was looking at the identical item in DMG2, didn't know it was reprinted in MIC

Offline Aradu

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Re: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2012, 06:19:57 PM »
Speaking of Bard spells in rune staves, what about improvisation? You don't have a luck bonus to spellcraft yet, do you?

Offline Mister Freeze

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Re: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2012, 09:37:33 PM »
As for a Bard Spell to put in the Runestaff...

How about either Ruin Delver's Fortune (Persistable!), or, Opportune Dodge?

-K

Ruin delver's is already on my persist list, it's also a wizard spell, so no need to put it in a runestaff.  I'm going to try to persist lightfoot, which is strictly superior to opportune dodge, because lightfoot stop all AoOs while it's active. 

Speaking of Bard spells in rune staves, what about improvisation? You don't have a luck bonus to spellcraft yet, do you?

That spell was the purpose of the runestaff in the first place.  :D

Offline dna1

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Re: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 08:58:37 AM »
Well looks like your builds pretty solid. Here is a few good items I usually put on my casters..

(click to show/hide)

A empowered spellshard, or circlet of rapid casting could be pretty nice for you. I would make him regret not letting you have a item familiar :devil Just use some hard familiar abuse haha

Anyways, goodluck!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 09:03:34 AM by dna1 »
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Offline radionausea

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Re: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2012, 09:42:04 AM »
Skill focus (history), lucky start, and iron will from magical locations
Wizard   Arcane disciple (destiny), imp. init. (replaces scribe scroll), mother cyst (flaw), arcane disciple (destiny) (flaw)

You have Arcane Disciple (Destiny) listed twice so if you're playing human you have one more feat at first level.
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Offline Mister Freeze

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Re: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2012, 09:46:36 AM »
Oops, one of those should read luck.

Crap, I've just realized that I want to ban enchantment for incantatrix, which causes me to not qualify for mindbender.  How could I get charm person back on my spell list?  Or be able to cast is as an SLA or invocation?  I'm not a specialist, so I won't qualify for spell reprieve, and extra spell isn't going to be an option either.  The fatespinner levels and a feat are the resources I can put toward this, though I'd rather not lose caster levels by simply dipping into a class that would add it.  Arcane disciple: charm, renewal, or lust would do the trick, but do any of the make sense with arcane disciple luck and destiny?  All your arcane disciple domains need to come from one deity, and Lyris (CWar) and Istus (CDiv) have both luck and destiny.  Does anyone think renewal or charm could make sense with either of those?  They both would get me good spells. 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 01:43:08 PM by Mister Freeze »

Offline Endarire

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Re: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2012, 06:58:37 PM »
What about just normal spell research?  (DMG 198)  Maybe Extra Spell from Complete Arcane will let you do it.  Maybe your GM will let you in without charm person.  (These are all GM Fiat methods.)

Offline Gavinfoxx

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Re: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2012, 01:29:17 AM »
Get knowstones AND Runestaffs! Knowstones: Dragon Magazine 333, I believe. SUCH a great item...
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Offline radionausea

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Re: Incantatrix round 3, help and review wanted
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2012, 05:15:55 AM »
There's also the feat Spell Reprieve from Lost Empires of Faerun that lets you cast a spell from a banned list, not really worth it when there are items out there though.

You could also take the level of Mindbender before Incantrix. You don't lose access to the entire school when you ban it at Incantrix, just the access to higher levels spells.

edit - no, you'll be fine.  Charm person is a first level spell.  There's no way that banning from Incantrix could cause you to lose access to it.

Quote
The incantatrix can never again learn spells from that prohibited school or schools. She can still use the prohibited spells she knew prior to becoming an incantatrix, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 05:20:24 AM by radionausea »
Something inside me dies when I see the word fallacy applied to ideas held about roleplaying. And a small bit of vomit comes up when I see a character called a 'toon'.