No magic allowed... best possible low level build?

[phaedrusxy]

More than likely this DM will veto anything remotely interesting, but I might be able to get the whisper gnome or water half orc builds by him... so far he's said the available races are humans, elves, dwarves, and genasi (the half elemental humans... in his non magical "real world" game... *sigh*) - when asked by a friend if he could play a gnome, the dm responded "well, gnomes aren't core..."

WHAT? They're one of the PHB races. What exactly is his definition of "core"? 

[NiteCyper]

More than likely this DM will veto anything remotely interesting, but I might be able to get the whisper gnome or water half orc builds by him... so far he's said the available races are humans, elves, dwarves, and genasi

Humans are one of the most optimal races, especially for the Factotum, but I suppose it's better to push hard for the extra races and act dejected when you fall back to Humans.

Edit: In which I corrigō, obsolescing part of a post-post which now puzzles outside observers (being anyone that isn't me or the post-poster) except by the unerasable evidence in quotation.

[Allisade]

More than likely this DM will veto anything remotely interesting, but I might be able to get the whisper gnome or water half orc builds by him... so far he's said the available races are humans, elves, dwarves, and genasi (the half elemental humans... in his non magical "real world" game... *sigh*) - when asked by a friend if he could play a gnome, the dm responded "well, gnomes aren't core..."

WHAT? They're one of the PHB races. What exactly is his definition of "core"? 

I know =)

Our usual DM's been running a game for a few years and wants a break, he did a great job of creating a intelligent sandbox world for us to do whatever we wanted in - and reacted beautifully no matter what weirdness we threw at him - but he was never a big believer in "there is a story that must be told" - it was much more "there is a world, here's a few possible plot hooks, whatcha wanna do?" - which was frustrating for one of the players who likes his adventures a lot more soft serve.

This player's last gaming session was the "best adventure ever" - the DM of that one made it all about him, made the story revolve around his character and his character's back story, the DM turned his character into a half-platinum dragon half way through the adventure, and everything the player did was "Epic" ... cause the DM made it so basically.

So now that our (real) DM is taking a break, this other guy wants to DM for us for a while so he can show us all how it should be done - by recreating that last adventure of his for all of us I think.

However, in the new DM's own words: "I'm not smart you know, I just need attention!"

So it'll be interesting.

He's informed me that I shouldn't worry about making a good character, because "he'll be messing with everyone's character and putting awesome stuff on our sheets" - when I said I wasn't completely comfortable with that idea (it sounds a little like "don't worry about your wife, I'll be messing with her and making her awesome" to my ears...) his reply was "that's the point! "   

...

I think the idea behind the no-magic-1st-level build is so we start as weak and useless as possible, so when he does "awesome things" to us all - we'll be appropriately impressed and appreciative of him and see what truly "epic" gaming is really all about.


It's probably going to be a train wreck but... well, we'll see =)

Half the reason I want to build a decent character is so that, when things go wrong (due to poor planning, ignorance of the rules, or his expectations not including the idea that we're not him and may want / do things differently than he would... etc. etc.) there might be some hope that I can actually do something to help the situation. Maybe, possibly =)

We'll see =)

[Allisade]

More than likely this DM will veto anything remotely interesting, but I might be able to get the whisper gnome or water half orc builds by him... so far he's said the available races are humans, elves, dwarves, and genasi

Humans are one of the most optimal races, especially for Factota, but I suppose it's better to push hard for the extra races and act dejected when you fall back to Humans.

Yes =)

[NiteCyper]

If healing is hard-up in the non-magical campaign start, there's the Rapid Metabolism feat. Band-Aids for Dummies denounces RM but its counter-argument of Lifebond Vestments doesn't work as well as made out to be considering the life cost (and soulmelds can be considered too magical). Healing Devotion is better but can be considered too magical too.

[Bearchucks]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0  Swift Hunter is here.  You merge Ranger and Scout for a ranged-rogue type.  Light skirmisher, tracking, scouting, favored enemies...if that appeals, that's Swift Hunter for ya.

[Lycanthromancer]

Since you're starting at early levels, see if you can do the warblade/factotum thing ('factotums' is the correct way to do the plural for the class, according to Cityscape), and start by buying a swarm of war-mules. (Craft them for 1/3 price! Though that might be a bit too squicky for you if you think about it too hard. ) Later on, start buying and/or training warbeast dire animals. Warbeast dire bats are awesome, and warbeast polar bears make awesome tanks at early levels.

[Heatwizard]

Be a Barbarian, and use fast movement to run away from this game.

Uh...hm. Troll-Blooded(feat) will give you regeneration 1, which'll make you pretty tough, but your DM will probably just be like "pfft, no trolls, pick again".

[NiteCyper]

Templates: Arctic (Ice-Dweller) and Unseelie Fey are good even without magic.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

You might want to consider a lesser planetouched race of some sort.  Genasi are allowed, so you can probably slip the others past him by saying they're basically the same thing. 

Dragonborn Ooze Paragenasi gets +6 con, -2 dex and -2 cha, which isn't half bad.

[Tshern]

+1 dipllomancer

handle animal could get interesting too

Both!

[dna1]

+1 dipllomancer

handle animal could get interesting too

Both!

A diplomancer can be a excellent low level build choice. Go half-orc paragon, take like menacing demeanor and dreadful wraith. You can pretty easily get a +16 mod to intimidate at first level.
Here's a link for dreadful wraith if your not familiar with it

That combo can be pretty effective in the lower levels.  Otherwise my standard reflex for low level, but powerful would be a druid. Though the no magic kinda F's you there

[SorO_Lost]

Mineral Warrior Azurin with Azure Toughness and Troll-Blooded is pretty hard to kill in a normal game.

It has DR 8/Adamantine, Regeneration 1/Fire or Acid, +4 Con and +6HP.
ECL 2 though...

Edit - With Flaws you can take Thick-Skinned twice for DR 12/Adamantine.

[Allisade]

Just to let people know how I went on this...

I really enjoyed reading tome of battle - what a neat addition to melee characters, I love the options and the possibilities.

I created a first level warblade (planning on adding in cloistered cleric and factotum as well per sipercival's suggestions) - did a fire elf for the int (20 now) and to keep open the possibility of maybe enternal blade prc later on - and I took a couple flaws against my saves (that I can replace with concentration checks with the warblade maneuvers) and got the dm to allow iaijatsu focus which he said to "just add it in as a knowledge skill" - not sure why but hey, that works for me.

With Punishing Stance, Nightmare Sapphire Blade and Iaijatsu that's +3d6 damage - I'm thinking of adding in Rapid Assault for a starting feat to make it +4d6 on the opening round of combat, not bad for a level 1 =) But Im not sure if that's my best route (after all it's just one d6 for a feat... but it will be fun at lower levels... kinda pointless at higher levels ... dunno.)

Are there any good guides to maximizing concentration or iaijatsu? I imagine I'm not the first person to go this route =) I would like to see what people use (and if any of it would work in my non magic world I'm stuck in, when magic turns on - I'll be looking for +15 skill items if I can find / make them =))

Thank you all for the suggestions - I love coming to this board and really enjoyed reading up on the swift hunter and all the races (unfortunately most of the fey / planar / etc stuff was nixed by the gm - but he let the red haired elf go through - so there's that =)) any further thoughts are always appreciated!

-Allisade

Edit: Thought I'd mention what I'm using on concentration iaijatsu so far:

Traits:
Absent Minded (+1 knowedge checks (since dm says iaijatsu is knowledge for us), - 1 spot & listen)
Focused (+1 concentration, -1 spot and listern)
Feat:
Education: All knowledge skills are class skills, +1 to two knowledge skills (iaijatsu/arcana) -- not sure about this but with knowledge devotion coming up...


I couldn't find any skill synergies and I only have 300g to work with (to buy non magical items...) so, not sure what else to do =)

[Kremti]

You might be able to convince your DM to create some "Masterwork Tool" for the skills...that'll add +2.

-K

[muktidata]

I second Swift Hunter. It's so simple, DM's can't hate it.

Strongheart Halfling for small size and feat.
Scout gives trapfinding and skills.
Spell-less Ranger gives extra feats.
Bows and reach weapons for combat.
Wild Empathy dominates animals.
A Swindlespitter animal companion for battle field control early. A bat to fly on later.
Good skills, good damage, simple, flavorful.

The perfect character against these kind of DM's.

[GreatRobo]

Well if you wanted to be a real dick you could always pull out the commoner cowherder build out.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

Well if you wanted to be a real dick you could always pull out the commoner cowherder build out.

plz enlighten me, I've only herd of the Wizard who sold his spellbook to become a hearder...

[GreatRobo]

Well if you wanted to be a real dick you could always pull out the commoner cowherder build out.

plz enlighten me, I've only herd of the Wizard who sold his spellbook to become a hearder...

Quoted From:  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2813

Okay, without using a single special rule, flaw, or race I will use a dirty trick shown to me by another on the boards here.

Human
Commoner 1

Cha-maxed (though not neccessary)
Skills- Handle Animal 4
Feats:
H. Merchantile Background (FRcompendium)
1. Skill Focus (Animal Handling)

all other stats don't matter

Spend all starting gold on a herd of cattle.  With the Merchantile background, that is an extra 300 gp.  They cost 10 gp each, so that would total of 50 cows.



Strategy- go prone and say "moo", which is "repeatedly run over that guy over there that I'm pointing to" in Cowsh.  The enemy, if within 160' is charged over by the cows, needing no attack roll and causing 1d12 damage per 5 in the herd.  That is exactly 10d12 damage (Reflex DC 18 half) to everything in a 160' x 200' swath. 

If the enemy survives that, you say 'Mooo' which means "come back here and get a treat after running over that guy again just for the fun of it" in eastern Cowsh (taught to the cows during 'off time' since you don't waste your time reading books or practicing anything useful).  Repeat until combat ends.

This can take out just about anything I have seen here, by an NPC who has no weapons or training outside cowherding.

[Felix Underwood]

Non-magical healing can be had with the alchemical Healing Salve from Lords of Darkness.  Oddly, Craft (alchemy) doesn't actually require spellcasting... but every alchemy item in the table under the craft skill description that can be made with alchemy has the footnote "1" that requires spellcasting to make those items.  (RAW vs RAI)  I hate spending money for healing though...