D&D 5e: For real this time?

[Ziegander]

Interview with Mike Mearls up. Not a lot of new information up, but sometimes his silence is just as telling.

I have to say, his constant repetition that the game will be "slim" and "focused" on the "absolutely essential elements" has me optimistic. I've been wanting a much more simplified core rules set for a long while now, and the idea for 5th seems to be to design the simplest D&D rules as possible and then offer all manner of optional layers. I really like this idea.

I don't know... I'm not convinced. It's a good concept, but it sounds to me like he's trying to sell it, not talk about it, and the constant repetition smacks of marketing buzzwords.

Well, for example, when asked if the new edition would have a fundamental approach that was like 4e's system of powers for each class, and Mearls repeated the mantra of slim, essential elements, I take this to mean that the new edition will not have that sort of thing as part of the core rules. Which makes me optimistic, because if that's true, then the Core game stands a greater chance to be more simple.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

I think they should bring in more fan-created campaign settings, like what they did with Eberron.  I found Eberron to be interesting and awesome, and I'd love more rich campaign worlds to play with.

You know what would be interesting?  If they could have maybe 3 or 5 different settings representing different "magic level" play-styles.  Eberron would be a good example of a High/Prevalent Magic setting, while Greyhawk could be the "standard" D&D magic level setting where you might be able to find a few magic shops, and can fairly easily commission items.

What they really need is a good example of a "Low-Magic" setting.  That type of world seems relatively popular with DM's (and even some groups), but because there are no good examples to emulate within D&D, most DM's screw it up and you end up with 15th level fighters begging for +1 swords, and some of the players end up getting screwed in the process.

There are ways to pull off such a thing without screwing the players or their fun, but many DM's seem oblivious to their need to do anything other than remove most magic items.  I know there are home-made settings out there that can do this concept well, but I think it would help a lot of gaming groups if there were such a setting in print, that they could at least point to as the example of the way such a setting can be pulled off without unbalancing casters vs. non-casters even worse than it already is.

+1 ... and/or hide it in plain sight.

Calling the high end "Epic" hasn't worked so well.
Calling the low end "Heroic" doesn't work like gamer presuppositions say they should.
Squeezing these into almost entirely separate game systems = Good.

2e Planescape was a semi-high end game setting.
Great fluff, I say the best the game has done (but that's just me).
2e crunch is kinda off , big deal , that's fixable.

Everybody knows Harry Potter.
Early with the kiddies = super low end.
"My wand (implement) works 40% of the time, and can target Chaos Fey now !!"
Awesome ... hey click on hannah montana.

[Prime32]

I think they should bring in more fan-created campaign settings, like what they did with Eberron.  I found Eberron to be interesting and awesome, and I'd love more rich campaign worlds to play with.

You know what would be interesting?  If they could have maybe 3 or 5 different settings representing different "magic level" play-styles.  Eberron would be a good example of a High/Prevalent Magic setting, while Greyhawk could be the "standard" D&D magic level setting where you might be able to find a few magic shops, and can fairly easily commission items.

What they really need is a good example of a "Low-Magic" setting.  That type of world seems relatively popular with DM's (and even some groups), but because there are no good examples to emulate within D&D, most DM's screw it up and you end up with 15th level fighters begging for +1 swords, and some of the players end up getting screwed in the process.

There are ways to pull off such a thing without screwing the players or their fun, but many DM's seem oblivious to their need to do anything other than remove most magic items.  I know there are home-made settings out there that can do this concept well, but I think it would help a lot of gaming groups if there were such a setting in print, that they could at least point to as the example of the way such a setting can be pulled off without unbalancing casters vs. non-casters even worse than it already is.

What they need to do is throw out stat-boosting items, and make those bonuses inherent and built into your level progression. This also means that every magic item you find will do something unique and interesting.
At the very least put making +1 swords in the hands of blacksmiths rather than wizards. (what is the Craft skill even for?)

[Complete4th]

(what is the Craft skill even for?)

Noobs. Didn't you get the memo?

I must be in a cynical mood, because I find myself wondering what new pejorative the bitter grognards will invent for 5e fans. We have '3tards,' '4ons,' what's next? And while we're at it, I'm sure there are a few demeaning generalizations for TSR D&Ders but I can't recall any.

[ksbsnowowl]

'3tards,' '4ons,' what's next?

Both of those are news to me...

[Endarire]

I can neither confirm nor deny whether my efforts (such as my tens of question threads) are to develop 5E.

I can honestly say that I've been working on my own tabletop RPG on my own time with the spirit of 3.5 and inspirations from a variety of tabletop and video games, such as DDO, 4E, and Pathfinder.

[Keldar]

(what is the Craft skill even for?)

Noobs. Didn't you get the memo?

I must be in a cynical mood, because I find myself wondering what new pejorative the bitter grognards will invent for 5e fans. We have '3tards,' '4ons,' what's next? And while we're at it, I'm sure there are a few demeaning generalizations for TSR D&Ders but I can't recall any.

5tupid and 6hay of course.    Followd by 7azy in 2023.  As for the old ones, grognard pretty much covers it, with fatbeard being a specific variety.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

hope5ey and dream5ey


By-the-way ... there's  a rather new Mearls v Trollman dust-up
floating around out there. I didn't get the link fast enough.
Oh boy(s).

[Ziegander]

By-the-way ... there's  a rather new Mearls v Trollman dust-up
floating around out there. I didn't get the link fast enough.
Oh boy(s).

[RobbyPants]

By-the-way ... there's  a rather new Mearls v Trollman dust-up
floating around out there. I didn't get the link fast enough.

A new one? From where?

The last one I remember reading was on 4E Skill Challenges, which is a couple of years old.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

I should punt. No, there "officially" isn't one.
Perhaps too many statistically improbable phrases got my attention.

otoh - could be a Prophecy, eh ?
 
It's not much of a reach, to say there will be one soon enough.

[Ziegander]

Seems likely.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

(casts: Dispel "Punt") ... wait just one day and ...

(click to show/hide)

Lago wrote:
But going back to the original point, I have a really hard time seeing how 5E D&D would be worse than 4E D&D short of Mike Mearls failing to fix any of the original problems and throwing in a bunch of crap subsystems that also weren't fixed.

frank wrote:
Wait. You read Mearls' tirade about skills where you have to cross reference numeric bonuses and titular categories in order to generate DCs and then you have to compare the number you passed by and your titular category to someone else's titular categories and numeric bonuses to generate their DC? That's seriously the worst skill system I have ever heard of. I'd rather do opposed checks in a d% roll-under system. Because that is seriously less steps.

Let's put this in perspective: the lead on the project is a man whose worst failing is that he starts and does not finish project after project, leaving a path of wreckage composed of failed and unfinished subsystems all over any edition he works on. He has announced that the signature point of the new edition is that it will have far more semi-transparent subsystems than any other edition of the game has ever had. We're in for Iron Heroes II: Even More Shitty Token Accounting. And you can't imagine how that could be worse than 4e?

-Frank

[Complete4th]

(what is the Craft skill even for?)

Noobs. Didn't you get the memo?

I must be in a cynical mood, because I find myself wondering what new pejorative the bitter grognards will invent for 5e fans. We have '3tards,' '4ons,' what's next? And while we're at it, I'm sure there are a few demeaning generalizations for TSR D&Ders but I can't recall any.

5tupid and 6hay of course.    Followd by 7azy in 2023.  As for the old ones, grognard pretty much covers it, with fatbeard being a specific variety.

Damn. How could I forget fatbeard? Sounds like a pirate.

"It's Fatbeard's flag! Hold steady men, he's waving the original Wand of Orcus! Stuff wax in your ears, me hearties! Yo ho, don't listen to his new school tirade! And if'n he captures you, kill yourself before he offers you his Gygax grog!"

[caelic]

Damn. How could I forget fatbeard? Sounds like a pirate.

"It's Fatbeard's flag! Hold steady men, he's waving the original Wand of Orcus! Stuff wax in your ears, me hearties! Yo ho, don't listen to his new school tirade! And if'n he captures you, kill yourself before he offers you his Gygax grog!"

Don't forget his close rival Neckbeard.

[Keldar]

(what is the Craft skill even for?)

Noobs. Didn't you get the memo?

I must be in a cynical mood, because I find myself wondering what new pejorative the bitter grognards will invent for 5e fans. We have '3tards,' '4ons,' what's next? And while we're at it, I'm sure there are a few demeaning generalizations for TSR D&Ders but I can't recall any.

5tupid and 6hay of course.    Followd by 7azy in 2023.  As for the old ones, grognard pretty much covers it, with fatbeard being a specific variety.

Damn. How could I forget fatbeard? Sounds like a pirate.

"It's Fatbeard's flag! Hold steady men, he's waving the original Wand of Orcus! Stuff wax in your ears, me hearties! Yo ho, don't listen to his new school tirade! And if'n he captures you, kill yourself before he offers you his Gygax grog!"

Great, now that sounds like someone I knew.  I'm never going to be able to think of him without a pirate's hat now.   Yo ho ho and a bag of dice! 

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Don't forget his close rival

awwwwww caelic I coulda done without that

[Necrosnoop110]

Basic = Childhood
1E = Preadolescence   
2E = Adolescence
3E = Adulthood
4E = Midlife crisis
5E = ???

[bhu]

Basic = Childhood
1E = Preadolescence   
2E = Adolescence
3E = Adulthood
4E = Midlife crisis
5E = ???

5E=Post-crisis prison sentence

[awaken_D_M_golem]

 

7th Edition = oops , we took too long in development and the Singularity happened.