D&D 5e: For real this time?

[Cannotthink]

To be fair, adamantine always was a quasi-magical metal.

Plus, I don't believe we know how much medium wondrous items cost yet.

Well, I can't deny that as a justification. Just comparing it to the prices of 3.5 stuff since the armor prices/benefits are similar. Regardless, it's still really freaking expensive.

[oslecamo]

Well, I can't deny that as a justification. Just comparing it to the prices of 3.5 stuff since the armor prices/benefits are similar. Regardless, it's still really freaking expensive.

Some speculation of mine:
-"Medium" magic items seem like they'll become DM fiat. You can make some potions and other minor stuff, but anything stronger will have to be found in loot or bargained with special NPCs. This means you go stashing large amounts of gold, and then may as well spend it in some nonmagic armor upgrade.
-If they're trying to keep overall numbers lower, that +8 to AC may actually be pretty good. In particular because it also works against spells now.

[Cannotthink]

I guess the real value in the armor will be determined as soon as we can see how everything advances in later levels and whatever other items there are in store.

On to a more mundane topic. Electrum: what's up with that. It's nice to see the stuff used, but do we really need a half-gold piece?

[ksbsnowowl]

On to a more mundane topic. Electrum: what's up with that. It's nice to see the stuff used, but do we really need a half-gold piece?

It was present in 2nd Ed, and likely before.  I've actually used it on occasion in 3rd ed.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

" ... Electrum ... "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrum

Yeah 1e had it too.  If they're just looking for extra words to apply
to some sort of WBL currency equivalents ...  = whatever.
4e Astral Diamonds doesn't have quite the "ring" to it, either.
History of the game, blah blah, is better than nothing.
It might not matter what they do with Money as a category,
so long as they have it, there'll be problems.

Another way to make that work, is to have refined Gold
be the more valuable / order of magnitude , higher currency.
Alloy of cheap gold = mercantile exchange above the "turnip" level.
Stylized Gold Jewelry of the Deity = symbolic higher than mercantile exchange.
 

Not quite. Take 10, but then add in modifiers.. Especially since I think ability boosts may become the new class attack/save/etc bonuses.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. Yeah, you add the modifiers, since it's effectively a regular skill check on which you're taking 10. That means the rogue only gets an advantage out of this compared to someone else with the trained skill if:

a) the DC is 10 or lower but the circumstances are stressful enough to merit a check. Not too fantastic since you don't have to roll very high at all to succeed, but sure.
b) the DC is greater than 10 but at most 10+your skill modifier. This is probably where the biggest difference comes in, since these aren't listed as auto-pass checks by default.
c) the DC is even larger and your DM has multiple levels of failure depending on the margin of failure. This is really subjective, though.

That said, with the restricted ability scores, you can have a strength of 10 and still have a decent chance to beat the tarrasque at arm-wrestling. That's never going to come up, of course, because in lieu of presenting an exponential progression or something so that the RNG makes some sense, DMs are encouraged to overrule things that are nonsensical. I'm actually a little scared at the emphasis they've put on that point in this document.

Note is states that the minimum die result is 10.  The implication there is you still roll, only results of 1 to 9 are counted as 10.  And if not, who cares?  DCs are all under 20 so far (With no sign, as of yet, they will increase by much over 20 levels.) and the rogue is looking at results of 13 to 16 for the take 10 interpretation.

4e floated something small, kinda like this.
Wood Elf something, that gave a mini- Take 8 on an Athletics (?) check.
Fail on 1 , 2 to 7 get an 8 , 8+ get the die roll.
I liked it ... (not that this particularly matters)
but they didn't do anything else like this.

[veekie]

Well for high end currencies theres always using standard form compact trade goods like diamonds in bulk.

[Wrex]

Clearly, we should all use Ressidium as the currency of the realm.


Human Cleric of pelor is clearly of the Str-dumping variety made popular by 4th ed.

[linklord231]

I'm wondering if the designers put so much emphasis on DM fiat in the playtest because they don't want to reveal the rules for every situation yet.  Maybe they will have more concrete, less hand-wavey rules for everything, they just didn't want to include them in this early version - especially for niche cases that are unlikely to come up in the given adventure, and would only distract from the core gameplay. 

I'm hoping this is the case, because I rather dislike the power that they've placed purely in the DM's hands.  It encourages DMs (especially new DMs) to play "god mode", which in many cases amounts to "I'm the DM, so that gives me the right to be a douchebag."  And that's just not fun. 

[caelic]

I'm still trying to figure out who this new system is for.

It's not really for the "balance uber alles" crowd--4e works fine for that.

It's not really for the hardcore optimizers and system redliners--3.5/Pathfinder still seem to be the systems of choice there.

It's not for the old-school players, who are spoiled silly these days with OSR systems.

So who is the core target market for this edition?

[JohnnyMayHymn]

I predict that future D&D Next playtests will have different levels of DM fiat(and other mechanics will also vary), and not necessarily based on our feedback. 

I wouldn't be surprized if the next kit was already done or nearly ready.  So, I'm not getting too exited or dissapointed until I see the final core books.

@caelic: I think the target market is everyone you listed

[InnaBinder]

I'm still trying to figure out who this new system is for.

It's not really for the "balance uber alles" crowd--4e works fine for that.

It's not really for the hardcore optimizers and system redliners--3.5/Pathfinder still seem to be the systems of choice there.

It's not for the old-school players, who are spoiled silly these days with OSR systems.

So who is the core target market for this edition?

Everyone on Earth.  WotC wants all your base to belong to them.

[caelic]

@caelic: I think the target market is everyone you listed

It's nice in theory, but I worry that it'll fail in execution.  It seems like they're trying to be all things to all players--and I just don't see it working out.

[Libertad]

The One Edition to Rule Them All!

Was this already said?

[Unbeliever]

@caelic: I think the target market is everyone you listed

It's nice in theory, but I worry that it'll fail in execution.  It seems like they're trying to be all things to all players--and I just don't see it working out.

+1 from what I hear (namely on this thread) the attempt to please everyone comes at the extent of giving the system any real identity. It's just a mishmash with a D&D label and a "let the DM sort it all out" slapped onto it.

Given that all these groups have an attractive alternative sitting on their shelves I can't see how this could possibly work.

I'm still disappointed that they didn't essentially refine the approach taken in Star Wars Saga Edition for the successors of 3.x.

[Keldar]

@caelic: I think the target market is everyone you listed

It's nice in theory, but I worry that it'll fail in execution.  It seems like they're trying to be all things to all players--and I just don't see it working out.

That is my feeling as well.  Better to have gone to make one group ecstatic than make everyone mildly interested.  However, so far I'm not seeing anything worth freaking out over.  Maybe 4E just set my expectations too low, but the beta document has actually improved my reaction level to 5e.

[Wrex]

Well, I'll wait til we see some char gen guidelines before I make any judgement. This kind of stuff is just too complicated to make any reasoned decision until you can see the whole thing.

[veekie]

Clearly, we should all use Ressidium as the currency of the realm.

As long as you have an easily verifiable way to identify the value standard, and to prevent counterfeiting, a stable base value equal to the currency unit. Diamonds in 3.5 have a relatively stable value. After all, a thousand gp worth of them equals one death.

Got the idea off Sanderson

[altpersona]

i like the stormlight currency system.

i also have a tendency to carry gem dust instead of large numbers of coins on my characters.

[altpersona]

5e game went well.

overall i think it was too simplistic.

we had 4 players. we showed up last and picked our pregens last. my boy picked the the non healing cleric and i got stuck w/ the wizard.      we talked the dm into bringing the healing cleric as a hireling npc whose job was stay out of the way and heal us when we rested.

i cant speak to if he rogue is the new monk, but at low levels the pregen rogue is probably better than they should be. auto 16s on rogue skills is overly handy.

i think my wiz had a better body count than anyone else. magic mook gun lays waste to mooky kobalds.

used 3 of my 4 first level spells. B hands : mass mook killer, Sleep: kill mooks later, comp lang: dafuq u call me?  second day re-memorized spells w/ 2 B hands and a sleep.

never needed to freeze ray anyone.

so most mechanics are familiar / easy to use. roll init... strength to hit... so on...

to me, it seems skills will be almost entirely fiat/useless.

also my lvl 1 elf wizard had 16 hp. 

in a more advanced situation beyond this first test, looks like advantages/disadvantages will be huge.

in all (i think) we killed 26 + 6 +3 + 5 +18 + 6 creatures. two got away.

after the first 40ish we went back to the coup to rekeep. went back the next day to finish off mooks that we didnt have the hp to take on the first time.

our cleric used his little bit of healing and swung his hammer... no real diff from any other version at lvl 1.

rogue was more effectively a rogue than they have been in the past at first level

fighter slayed mooks w/ his guaranteed damage hit or miss (one at a time).

it was fighters first dnd game ever. he usually plays SW saga (i think).

rogue mostly 40ks i think..

cleric is a wow kid     has played several things a time or two.

wiz is a board regular and seasoned vet known for being as handsome as he is witty.   


EDIT: i retract some of the rogue stuff. i forgot how easy it was to ensure a 17 in 3.x rogue skills.

[Ziegander]

Y'know what, I think I'm going to retract some of my major vitriol over 5E. If it plays like a simplified, faster-running 3.5, then, even if it's still broken as hell, that's probably a very good thing. So, I'll wait and see what they've got in store for us.