Author Topic: Playable Tiny Race? (Read 6244 times)

Ithamar · « **on:** January 12, 2012, 12:46:51 PM »

I'm looking for a tiny creature that: a) has a listed LA and is playable, b) little to no STR penalty, c) preferably avoids templates. Any suggestions?

I've found the Petal from MMIII, but they have like -8 STR, which sucks. Imp has a LA thanks to Savage Species, is that going to be my best bet? I feel like there is something better out there, I just can't put my finger on it.

Harald · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:59:49 PM »

perhaps the Domovoï in Frostburn ? I do not remember if it has a strengh penalty. Or a pseudo-dragon...

The_Mad_Linguist · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2012, 03:06:01 PM »

Quote from: Ithamar on January 12, 2012, 12:46:51 PM

I'm looking for a tiny creature that: a) has a listed LA and is playable, b) little to no STR penalty, c) preferably avoids templates. Any suggestions?

I've found the Petal from MMIII, but they have like -8 STR, which sucks. Imp has a LA thanks to Savage Species, is that going to be my best bet? I feel like there is something better out there, I just can't put my finger on it.

Pseudodragon has -4 strength, and comes with weapon finesse. That might be workable. Especially since they have the dragon type, so there are a few options open that otherwise wouldn't be.

Calico · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2012, 03:18:19 PM »

Myconid Junior Worker out of the MMII (which got updated to 3.5 at some point if you were unaware) is tiny with a -2 STR. You might have issues with playability though: it can't speak, has no default languages it understands and an INT of -2 which makes picking up a bonus language (which it would understand but not be able to speak) that much harder. They're fun trippy little dudes though. Also, if there is a tiny dragon, it's probably listed here.

Kremti · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2012, 03:19:26 PM »

Speaking of the dragons, some Wyrmling True Dragons are tiny...like Brass and Black and stuff. Not that they are good with fairly large LA and such, but still...

Edit: Swordsage'd by Calico. I'm looking at Ethereal Dragon...might be fun. Wait, might not be good without the SL. But Shadow Dragon....too bad Very Young isn't Tiny. The Shadow Blend gives you Total Concealment pretty much anywhere!

-K

Ithamar · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2012, 04:22:53 PM »

Good suggestions all, thanks! I'll look into the Domovi and the various dragons. I had forgotten that some of the wyrmlings start out pretty small.

Edit: And that Myconid Jr. is actually pretty decent. Plant immunities are very nice. Hmmm...

The_Mad_Linguist · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2012, 06:08:11 PM »

What's the ECL on myconids? I can't find it in the MM2 entry.

X-Codes · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2012, 06:12:40 PM »

Quote from: The_Mad_Linguist on January 12, 2012, 06:08:11 PM

What's the ECL on myconids? I can't find it in the MM2 entry.

try the update book?

EDIT: +2

Ithamar · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2012, 08:15:52 PM »

Well after crunching a bunch of numbers, I ended up going with the Pixie. The stat mods, invisibility, DR, etc. just made it too good to pass up. Even with the -4 STR, it could cover up weaknesses that most other races still couldn't. So I'll just save up some GP and buy that ring from Lords of Madness that shrinks you a size category. It's not that expensive as I recall.

The_Mad_Linguist · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2012, 08:33:45 PM »

Quote from: X-Codes on January 12, 2012, 06:12:40 PM

Quote from: The_Mad_Linguist on January 12, 2012, 06:08:11 PM
What's the ECL on myconids? I can't find it in the MM2 entry.
try the update book?

EDIT: +2

Aha, the link I found first to a MM2 update was secretly the errata.

phaedrusxy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2012, 01:21:56 PM »

The muckdweller in Serpent Kingdoms was a playable tiny race, but I forget their stat mods.

weenog · « **Reply #11 on:** January 15, 2012, 06:07:35 PM »

You're not going to believe this, but a half-ogre might work, depending on how you interpret Giant Blood.

There's a Druid 7 spell in Eberron Campaign Setting, Return To Nature. It has various effects depending on creature type. Giants who fail their Fortitude saves become smaller, as though affected by Reduce Person (Str -2, Dex +2, instead of the usual size change effects). It's instantaneous duration, which means it never wears off, can't be dispelled or turned off by an antimagic field, and you can cast it repeatedly with accumulating effects on size (but not on ability scores, as a size bonus or penalty won't stack with itself).

vinom · « **Reply #12 on:** January 15, 2012, 10:57:28 PM »

Kobolds has slightly build, so they qualify as tiny when ever you want them to.

Ithamar · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2012, 01:57:42 PM »

Quote from: weenog on January 15, 2012, 06:07:35 PM

You're not going to believe this, but a half-ogre might work, depending on how you interpret Giant Blood.

There's a Druid 7 spell in Eberron Campaign Setting, Return To Nature. It has various effects depending on creature type. Giants who fail their Fortitude saves become smaller, as though affected by Reduce Person (Str -2, Dex +2, instead of the usual size change effects). It's instantaneous duration, which means it never wears off, can't be dispelled or turned off by an antimagic field, and you can cast it repeatedly with accumulating effects on size (but not on ability scores, as a size bonus or penalty won't stack with itself).

That sounds pretty crazy. I have to go find that...

weenog · « **Reply #14 on:** January 16, 2012, 06:46:15 PM »

Quote from: Ithamar on January 16, 2012, 01:57:42 PM

Quote from: weenog on January 15, 2012, 06:07:35 PM
You're not going to believe this, but a half-ogre might work, depending on how you interpret Giant Blood.

There's a Druid 7 spell in Eberron Campaign Setting, Return To Nature. It has various effects depending on creature type. Giants who fail their Fortitude saves become smaller, as though affected by Reduce Person (Str -2, Dex +2, instead of the usual size change effects). It's instantaneous duration, which means it never wears off, can't be dispelled or turned off by an antimagic field, and you can cast it repeatedly with accumulating effects on size (but not on ability scores, as a size bonus or penalty won't stack with itself).
That sounds pretty crazy. I have to go find that...

If your DM won't buy Giant Blood == treated as Giant type for purposes of the spell, there's always Half-Giant, which actually does have that type. Kind of crummy for the level adjustment, but when you add the racial ability adjustments to the size ability adjustments, you still end up with a Str adjustment of +0 rather than a penalty.

sirpercival · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2012, 07:15:54 PM »

You could do it with a Primordial Giant Eneko...

Jackinthegreen · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2012, 07:49:08 PM »

There's the Races of Destiny half-ogre which is exactly the same as the Savage Species one, except it actually is giant type, and for some reason that makes it +2 LA.

The_Mad_Linguist · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2012, 10:03:26 PM »

OK, take a warforged with +2 La of templates with nice stat mods. Hit it with expansion, then hit it with incarnate construct. You now have a LA+0 medium size giant. Now hit it with "return to nature" and shrink it down.

Alternatively, wave around a rod of wonder until it shrinks you to a twelfth of your size. That's the easy way.

weenog · « **Reply #18 on:** January 16, 2012, 10:08:54 PM »

Quote from: The_Mad_Linguist on January 16, 2012, 10:03:26 PM

OK, take a warforged with +2 La of templates with nice stat mods. Hit it with expansion, then hit it with incarnate construct. You now have a LA+0 medium size giant. Now hit it with "return to nature" and shrink it down.

I like how you take a totally backwards (but viable) suggestion and make it better by fucking it up even more.

Ithamar · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2012, 02:57:40 PM »

Mephits also present an interesting option for small but physically capable critters. I know MMI & Sandstorm have mephits. Any others?

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Author Topic: Playable Tiny Race? (Read 6244 times)