Author Topic: AD&D is being reprinted  (Read 8190 times)

Offline Prime32

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AD&D is being reprinted
« on: January 19, 2012, 03:42:40 PM »
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229367
Didn't see anyone talking about it here.


Offline The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 04:49:18 PM »
The true face of 5e.

Offline caelic

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 05:35:17 PM »
I admire what they're trying to accomplish, but are AD&D PHBs, MMs, and DMGs really so rare that a $45 collector's edition is merited?  I didn't pay $45 for my first edition, first printing MM.

It seems like you could pick up original copies of the books for a fraction of the price and then donate the balance to the Gygax Memorial Fund.

That said, it's nice to see that they're trying to reconnect with the old school playerbase.

Now, if they put out a collector's edition of OD&D, I'll be all OVER that--my books are ragged at best.

Offline Garryl

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 05:40:01 PM »
I admire what they're trying to accomplish, but are AD&D PHBs, MMs, and DMGs really so rare that a $45 collector's edition is merited?  I didn't pay $45 for my first edition, first printing MM.

To be fair, prices have roughly doubled* in the 30-something years since the first printings. So if you spent $20-$30 then for your books, the inflation-adjusted prices are about the same.

*Assuming 2% inflation for 35 years, or a little bit more inflation for a little bit less time. I don't know the real inflation number.

Offline caelic

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2012, 06:02:58 PM »

To be fair, prices have roughly doubled* in the 30-something years since the first printings. So if you spent $20-$30 then for your books, the inflation-adjusted prices are about the same.

*Assuming 2% inflation for 35 years, or a little bit more inflation for a little bit less time. I don't know the real inflation number.



As I recall, they ran about $15 at the time--and some books appreciate more than others.  The AD&D hardcovers were mostly printed in such quantities that, with the exception of first printings, they command very low prices even now.    Certain printings and books, of course, are worth more.  Deities and Demigods with squids and no thanks will run $50 or more, if it's in good condition.   A second print alpha DMG will set you back several hundred bucks, but there are VERY few of those--I've only ever seen one.  A first print MM or PHB may command a price of a couple hundred dollars if it's in prime condition.

Most later printings, though, will run under $10.  First edition AD&D is still a remarkably cheap hobby to buy into, unless you're going to go hardcore collector.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2012, 06:21:10 PM »
The true face of 5e.
My thoughts exactly ... (first time for everything, eh)


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Most of them rather dog-eared from tweenager use.

Are they gonna have a 1e SRD ...  :blush ... pretty please ...  :bigeyes ?!
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Offline johnboy069

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2012, 07:57:48 PM »
This is awesome, although it makes me wish I still had my collection.
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Offline Endarire

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 11:36:01 PM »
I find it odd people want to pay so much for these books.  I hope reprinting old editions isn't WotC's solution to appease fans of all editions.

Offline ZeroSpace

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2012, 11:42:45 PM »
Even if I was interested in picking up 1E books, which I'm not, I wouldn't stand for the $7 'North of the Border' markup that WotC feels is justified. If anything the American price should be higher, to reflect their lower dollar.

NOTE: Only slightly exaggerating about CDN/USA currencies.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2012, 03:59:52 PM »
(click to show/hide)

Hey !!
Psionics is Core in 1e.
 :)
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Offline Libertad

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WotC to reprint 1st Edition Core Books
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 07:37:31 PM »
They're doing it to honor Gygax.

Color me intrigued.  I'm interested in checking this out, but I don't know if it will be for me.

I don't know enough about 1st Edition to know if it will "grab" me.  What do you guys think of this move?

Also, how would you say 1st Edition is different than 3rd?  I don't have much experience with D&D in the TSR days.  How is class balance, and how much is character power tied to wealth and magic items?  How detailed is the combat system?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 07:39:55 PM by Libertad »

Offline littha

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Re: WotC to reprint 1st Edition Core Books
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2012, 07:56:31 PM »
1st is to 3rd as 4th is to 3rd. Completely different in a lot of ways. 2nd is basically 1.5e so if you get the chance and want to try out the system the Baldur's gates series is excellent.

Offline Prime32

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Re: WotC to reprint 1st Edition Core Books
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2012, 07:57:59 PM »
There's already a thread on this. Merging.

Offline bhu

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Re: WotC to reprint 1st Edition Core Books
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2012, 12:29:35 AM »
They're doing it to honor Gygax.

Color me intrigued.  I'm interested in checking this out, but I don't know if it will be for me.

I don't know enough about 1st Edition to know if it will "grab" me.  What do you guys think of this move?

Also, how would you say 1st Edition is different than 3rd?  I don't have much experience with D&D in the TSR days.  How is class balance, and how much is character power tied to wealth and magic items?  How detailed is the combat system?

Quite a bit different.  You only roll for stats, and some classes require certain stats to be able to qualify to play them (monk, paladin, bard, etc).  Your race limits what your max level in classes are (only humans go to 20 if i remember right).  Everyone has a percentile chance  to have psionics.

Offline Garryl

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Re: WotC to reprint 1st Edition Core Books
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2012, 01:00:31 AM »
They're doing it to honor Gygax.

Color me intrigued.  I'm interested in checking this out, but I don't know if it will be for me.

I don't know enough about 1st Edition to know if it will "grab" me.  What do you guys think of this move?

Also, how would you say 1st Edition is different than 3rd?  I don't have much experience with D&D in the TSR days.  How is class balance, and how much is character power tied to wealth and magic items?  How detailed is the combat system?

Quite a bit different.  You only roll for stats, and some classes require certain stats to be able to qualify to play them (monk, paladin, bard, etc).  Your race limits what your max level in classes are (only humans go to 20 if i remember right).  Everyone has a percentile chance  to have psionics.

Max level depends on both race and class. Most non-humans only get to about 9th level or thereabouts in the classes they can enter, although I think Thieves have no maximum level regardless of race.

Fighters still live and die by their magic items, although the baseline of what they need is a little simpler. Since creatures are simply immune to any weapon without a high enough plus (or with too high a plus in some corner cases), a fighting character absolutely needs sufficiently powerful weapons to even contribute (although any half-decent DM should make sure to provide appropriate weapons before throwing their players up against such monsters). On the other hand, the mindset I've generally seen is that fighters deserve awesome magical items, and they can use most of the commonly rolled ones anyways.

Magic Resistance is like Spell Resistance, only with a more convoluted way of determining your chance to bypass it, and every spell ever is SR: Yes.

Magic Missile and Fireball are prime pick spells. Hit points are much lower, so killing with damage is viable. No spell damage caps, either, so Fireball and friends remain viable room-sweepers even at high level. Spellcasting is also disrupted by even a single point of damage, and take longer to cast the higher level they are. The fast casting, always-hitting Magic Missile is thus a master spell disruptor.

Offline caelic

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Re: WotC to reprint 1st Edition Core Books
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2012, 09:23:48 AM »

Also, how would you say 1st Edition is different than 3rd?  I don't have much experience with D&D in the TSR days.  How is class balance, and how much is character power tied to wealth and magic items?  How detailed is the combat system?



I think people have failed to mention what I consider the core difference: the underlying party dynamic.  First edition is built around character interdependency.  A cleric can't do what the fighter does.  He can FIGHT, but there's no way for him to buff up and become a better fighter than the fighter himself.  The magic-user has spells, and those spells are quite powerful, but he's extremely vulnerable in a fight--MUCH moreso than in third edition.  The thief (no P.C. terms like "rogue," thank you very much!) has value, because for the most part, other classes don't have quick-and-easy ways to replace his core competencies.  (The magic-user still has spells like Knock, but in a game where magic-users don't get bonus spells, he's not going to be flinging Knock left and right.)

It's still all about resource management, but there's a lot less margin for error.  Magic-users get no bonus spells at all for high intelligence; clerics get a handful of bonus spells for high wisdom, but nothing like what they get in third edition.  EVERYONE gets far fewer hit points; you only have hit dice up to level 9 or so, and then a flat +1, +2, or +3 per level after that.  Only fighters can get a Con bonus of higher than +2.  A huge, ancient red dragon only has 88 hit points, but that's enough that you do NOT want to mess with him.  (Especially since his breath weapon does as many hit points as he has left.)

Certain monsters are considerably scarier.  Level-draining undead do just that: you get hit, you lose a level.  No "temporary negative levels."  Poison tends to kill rather than inconveniencing.

This isn't to say there's not room for optimization.  Multi-class characters can be quite powerful; they advance in both (or all three) of their classes simultaneously, and divide their experience points between them.  The upswing is that, while most of the party is 9th level, you might well be a level 7/8 fighter/thief.  You're not quite as good at either class as the single-classed characters, but you're a lot more versatile. 

Dual-class characters are about the closest you can get to 3.5 multiclassing, and they're uncommon.  Only humans can dual-class, and they have to have at least a 15 in the prime stat of their first class and a 17 in the prime stat of the second class.  (Keep in mind, stat boosts of any kind are extremely rare.)  You start as one class, then switch to a second class, and when your second class level exceeds your first, you get to freely use the abilities of both classes.

AD&D isn't smooth.  It isn't polished.  There are a lot of things that seem kludged together.  However, I actually think it's better-suited to long-term play than third edition.  A lot of the "illogical" things they changed in third edition make sense, from a balance perspective.  For instance, every class has a different experience chart.  A thief advances far faster than a magic-user.  That's not particularly sleek or streamlined, but it DOES lead to more balanced characters, as the 10th level thief can more easily hold his own with the 8th level wizard.

I'm actually a big fan of some of the OSR games that have said, "Let's take what was good about first edition and figure out how to fix the illogical parts."  Castles and Crusades is good; OSRIC is also good.

But I'd gladly dust off my first edition rulebooks and play a new campaign.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2012, 02:19:53 PM »
hmm ... now there's gonna hafta be a (re-) 1e C.O. board, eh ?!


The much more recent idea of "the math just works"
is not something that applies to 1e ... don't bother.
Still, the lineage is clear. And psionics ...  :)
Some of the 3.5e+errata spells, are direct ports
sometimes word for word via 1e to 2e to 3e.
I liked it back in the day, warts and all.
 

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Offline Libertad

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2012, 12:17:30 AM »
So, I'm checking out the OSRIC, the 1st Edition answer to the d20 SRD.

Some things I've noticed:

Class/Race options are more restrictive: the strength of humans is their ability to freely multiclass and not hit level limits.  You could play certain classes only if you rolled well enough for a certain score.  If you go straight 3d6, then it's possible that players may not be able to play the characters they kind.  Fortunately, the "4d6 roll the lowest, assign to ability scores" houserule is listed as an option.  Some of the level limitations are weird (why can't a Gnome progress further as an Illusionist?)

Rangers are Good-aligned "guardians of the community" types.  They're like Paladins with a kind of Ranger's code.

Thieves can't be Lawful Good or Chaotic Good.  Lawful Good makes sense in a weird alignment sort of way, but why not Chaotic Good?

You get experience for spending gold!  This is to encourage PCs not to hoard their money.  I smell potential for abuse.

Weapons do different damage to creatures of different sizes.  Daggers ain't as good against giants, but claymores do more damage to larger creatures! :sparta

Rules for insanity!  Maybe some Lovecraft influences?

Wages for henchmen and hirelings by occupation.  I like this, and think it's cool.  Better than the 3rd Edition Profession rules.

Random encounter chart for a city Red-Light District (page 168)!  Your party encounters a drunk, angry pimp!

Oddball Save-Or-Dies from female "monsters."  Examples are Dryads and Nymphs.  If a young male PC with a 16+ Charisma encounters a Dryad, she will try to charm him.  If she succeeds, he will elope with her into the wilderness and not be seen again (or return to civilization in 1d4 years).  And Nymphs still blind you, and Succubi are all female.  All the more incentive to play a female PC.

Giant Frog monster (page 251)!  Best monster ever: it has a tongue attack it uses to eat you!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 01:29:21 AM by Libertad »

Offline veekie

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Re: AD&D is being reprinted
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2012, 08:10:07 AM »
No tentacle monsters yet?
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