Mundane/non-full caster only game

[ImperatorK]

If you want to run a game with only mundane and minor-casting classes (like Ranger or Paladin casting, but not Bard casting), what do you have to watch out for?
Of course full casters are still there as NPCs or enemies, only PCs aren't allowed to take those classes.

EDIT: 3.P, of course.

[Lycanthromancer]

The biggest problem is that the enemies will curbstomp the party unless you have ToB in play, since everyone T3 and above (aside from them and the factotum) are low-tier.

Make sure most everyone is ToB and you should be mostly okay. Just don't throw anything that isn't purely mundane at the party.

[Arturick]

ToB seems to almost defeat the purpose of a mundanes game.  "You can't be wizards, but you can haul out quasi-magical attacks and teleportation effects based on a mystical understanding of your triceps."

And I'm thinking "Team Monster beats mundane PC's" approaches the old logical fallacy realm, since it completely negates the input of, you know, the DM.  I'm going to assume ImperatorK is not going to declare "no casters" then haul out a level-appropriate module.

So, things to consider assuming a non-ToB "mundanes" group...

Obviously, Challenge Rating is out the window as a guide.  It's a rather weak guide in normal situations, since properly played Shadows can decimate a group if they are not equipped to handle the situation.

Does the "no spellcasters" policy effect Ye Olde Magicke Shoppe?  You said there would be spellcaster NPCs, but are you running mundane party in magical world or mundane party in mostly mundane world?  If the latter, make your treasure hoards heavier on magic items left behind by Old Magic Empire Destroyed By Hubris and lighter on coins (which will be spent on nothing other than, potentially, the crazy stupid prices of items in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook and the trap section of the DMG).

Factor terrain heavily into your combats.  Since buff magic and battlefield control spells won't be around to the normal extent, the players should have to think tactically about cover, choke points, high ground, and other options that will keep the battle more interesting than "people with hurty things line up and stab each other."  If the party is attacked by flying enemies, include a thicket of densely packed trees, a small cave, and/or other places to allow concealment and draw the enemy in close.  Flyers attacking a mundane party in the open field will create a moment of "Ah crap, bad timing" dramatic tension, but the fight will just consist of "everyone draw a bow and roll attacks until the fight is over."

Have one or more people in the party with some kind of aggro-gathering mechanic.

Everyone needs a ranged weapon.

Can't think of anything else at the moment.

[ImperatorK]

ToB is allowed.

It will be a normal game (probably in FR). It's not Mundane World, it's just that I'd like to not have the casters solve every problem with one or two spells.

Magic items are available, but not just like that, but through crafters. They'll have to order the item and wait for it's completion. And of course they'll have magic items in loot.

[Lycanthromancer]

ToB seems to almost defeat the purpose of a mundanes game.  "You can't be wizards, but you can haul out quasi-magical attacks and teleportation effects based on a mystical understanding of your triceps."

The maneuvers in ToB are either explicitly magical (as they're marked as Su, which is mostly in the disciplines given to the swordsage, which is explicitly a magical gish-class without casting), or they're higher level things that mundane superheroes could do.

Most of them, however, are purely mundane, both mechanically and fluff-wise. Everything from 'I jump really high and really fast' to 'I hit it really hard' to 'I hit it more times in a row' to 'my sense of smell is really good' to 'I push my friends harder by inspiring them to do heroic feats' to 'my footwork is superior so I ignore rough terrain' to 'I know how to break bricks with my bare fists'. Not a single bit of that is even vaguely magical, but they give mundanes options beyond 'I run up and hit it with my stick, and next round...I hit it with my stick a few more times'.

Yes, the higher level stuff is beyond the realm of reality, but that's okay, because once you get past level 6, you go beyond the highest limits humanity is capable of IRL and start getting into superpower territory. And you can still be a superhero and still be nonmagical. After all, high level commoners can already survive a plummet from high orbit at terminal velocity, or bathing in lava for a half-minute, or getting stabbed in the brain with a dagger.

This stuff just has mechanics to back up the game's premise.

[Kasz]

I find it odd that you'd block Bard, and not Swordsage. A level one Bard can play a song to improve his allies morale and the odd cantrip such as ghost sound or detect magic. A level one swordsage has the ability to set fire to his sword with the power of his mind.

Desert Wind (Boost) [Fire]
Level: Swordsage 1
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of turn
Your blade bursts into flame as it sweeps toward your foe in an elegant arc.
A subtle yet precise twisting of your blade unlocks the power of flame.
When you initiate this maneuver, fire trails from your melee weapon. For the rest of your turn, your melee attacks deal an extra 1d6 points of fire damage +1 point per initiator level.
This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

That being said I like the idea of your campaign, having characters that aren't just win-in-one-turn-wizards and codzilla might feel more like heroes in a story vs villians rather than all powerful beings vs targets.

Maybe look at the book the marshal is in for the unit tactics and manouvers, see if you could reward military tactics with bonuses etc.

[ImperatorK]

But a Bard has up to 6th level spells. A Swordsage has just a couple of magical maneuvers that don't even have to be taken (and I don't even mind them to be taken). It's one thing to do a quasi-magical thing through sheer martial skill, and another to actually cast spells. Minor-casting classes (like Ranger or Paladin) are allowed to have spells because they're more-or-less in their tiers thanks to them, and I don't really want to limit all magic, just the higher level spells.

[Psyren]

How about quasi-casters? Things like Binder, Incarnum classes, Warlock, DFA, and... Truenamer?

On the Pathfinder side, Alchemists count too I suppose. Maybe Marksmen if you're allowing Psionics (they top out at 4ths like Rangers.)

[Solo]

UMD monks

[ImperatorK]

How about quasi-casters? Things like Binder, Incarnum classes, Warlock, DFA, and... Truenamer?

On the Pathfinder side, Alchemists count too I suppose. Maybe Marksmen if you're allowing Psionics (they top out at 4ths like Rangers.)

Oh hai. When did you get here?

Binder - I don't know. I'm not getting rid of spells in general, just the higher level spells, because they're just too powerful and versatile. Does Binder get any abilities that mimic higher level spells? I know only of Zceryll, who can spam Summon Monster.
Incarnum - they're simply classes that have their own magical equipment, so there's no problem with them.
Warlock - I'm not sure, some of the invocations are versions of good spells, and at will at that.
Dragonfire Adept - again I'm not sure.
Truenamer - I'd say that it's too magical.
Alchemist - too magical. He's almost like Bard.

[Lycanthromancer]

How about quasi-casters? Things like Binder, Incarnum classes, Warlock, DFA, and... Truenamer?

On the Pathfinder side, Alchemists count too I suppose. Maybe Marksmen if you're allowing Psionics (they top out at 4ths like Rangers.)

Oh hai. When did you get here?

Binder - I don't know. I'm not getting rid of spells in general, just the higher level spells, because they're just too powerful and versatile. Does Binder get any abilities that mimic higher level spells? I know only of Zceryll, who can spam Summon Monster.
Incarnum - they're simply classes that have their own magical equipment, so there's no problem with them.
Warlock - I'm not sure, some of the invocations are versions of good spells, and at will at that.
Dragonfire Adept - again I'm not sure.
Truenamer - I'd say that it's too magical.
Alchemist - too magical. He's almost like Bard.

Have you considered going E6? It'd let you play all the higher level tiers and other magical classes without worrying too much about having them overshadow anyone else.

[ImperatorK]

I'm not interested in E6. It's not about limiting power for everyone. And it's not about overshadowing. It's about casters dealing with encounters and problems too easily.
It's a challenge, of a sort, to play mundanes only, and that what's interesting in this game idea.

[Mixster]

UMD monks

Hiring NPC Wizards to buff you is a close second.

[ImperatorK]

Hiring NPC Wizards to buff you is a close second.

The PCs could do that, yes.

[cvar]

My current game is Rogue, Ranger(Archer), Mounted Fighter, Barbarian(me).

It's....rough.  Some of it is that the other players aren't that good at char building (the rogue is brand new to the game) and the rest is that the DM didn't expect us to be a zero caster party.  Almost all of the fights early on that were planned out led to us getting pin cushioned with arrows that could have been beaten in one turn with Sleep.  I'd say take that into account, as the parties abilities to handle an encounter will be drastically lower than normal.  Of course, as we level and pick up items to cover for our gigantic weakness it will smooth out, but early game seems like it will be really swingy.

If your players are good tacticians they should make it to the 'gold solves everything' stage without too much hassle.  If they keep trying to rob each other mid combat, well your game may go like ours is. 

[Rejakor]

It's on the DM.  You need to scale encounters down, especially at higher levels.  I found that running encounters with lots of enemies worked well, as well as 'big boss' style fights(assuming you don't use a boss that NEEDS a counterspeller or something), but encounters that I would have rated as 'deadly' using multiple hard-hitting fast monsters, NEED someone to CC or aoe them, so those just kill the party.  You have to plan around a) no healing, so less encounters, or at least no incombat Heal spell etc  b) lack of quick resolution - plan around double the number of rounds in each combat, with associated damage etc.