Rolling dice Vs point buy

[Tiltowait]

Point-Buy.
Nothing can destroy a character concept better then unusable stats.

+1.

[Halinn]

I like having the option of both. For example I've been in a game that had 4d6 drop lowest, fixed ordering, but with the option to take a 15 point buy (pathfinder style, not 3.5) instead.

[Arturick]

When someone suggests that we roll for stats, I just tell them I'll be taking all 18's then.  When they ask why, then I tell them, "Every character that wasn't perfect killed himself."

Seriously though, point buy wins over rolling, but I prefer to assign a stat array.

[linklord231]

My group uses 4d6 drop low, 6 times, take the best set.  And any set with a total modifier of less than 1 is re-rolled.  Also, we can move a single point from 1 attribute to another (usually to make a 13 into a 12 and a 15 into a 16, or vice versa if you need to qualify for Combat Expertise or something).  It makes character creation take freakin' forever, especially if you don't have an idea of what you want to play.  But on the plus side, it makes for some decently high powered (though not necessarily high-op) games when everybody has 1-2 18's and nothing less than a 10. 

We roll for HP's too, but with a minimum of half your HD (so if a Fighter rolls a 1, it's treated as if he rolled a 5). 

[10d10]

My group uses 4d6 drop low, 6 times, take the best set.  And any set with a total modifier of less than 1 is re-rolled.  Also, we can move a single point from 1 attribute to another (usually to make a 13 into a 12 and a 15 into a 16, or vice versa if you need to qualify for Combat Expertise or something).  It makes character creation take freakin' forever, especially if you don't have an idea of what you want to play.  But on the plus side, it makes for some decently high powered (though not necessarily high-op) games when everybody has 1-2 18's and nothing less than a 10. 

We roll for HP's too, but with a minimum of half your HD (so if a Fighter rolls a 1, it's treated as if he rolled a 5).

That's a nice rolling system, specially the liberty to move 1 point between stats.

My group tend to roll the HD, but only accept 50% of the HD, so if the fighter roll a 1, 2, 3 or 4, you reroll it.

[sirpercival]

My group uses 4d6 drop low, 6 times, take the best set.  And any set with a total modifier of less than 1 is re-rolled.  Also, we can move a single point from 1 attribute to another (usually to make a 13 into a 12 and a 15 into a 16, or vice versa if you need to qualify for Combat Expertise or something).  It makes character creation take freakin' forever, especially if you don't have an idea of what you want to play.  But on the plus side, it makes for some decently high powered (though not necessarily high-op) games when everybody has 1-2 18's and nothing less than a 10. 

We roll for HP's too, but with a minimum of half your HD (so if a Fighter rolls a 1, it's treated as if he rolled a 5).

That's a nice rolling system, specially the liberty to move 1 point between stats.

My group tend to roll the HD, but only accept 50% of the HD, so if the fighter roll a 1, 2, 3 or 4, you reroll it.

Faster for you to roll 1d6+4, there will be fewer rolls and the results are identical.  Similarly:

1d4 --> 1d3+1 (1d6/2)
1d6 --> 1d4+2
1d8 --> 1d5 + 3 (1d10/2)
1d10 --> 1d6 + 4
1d12 --> 1d7 + 5 (1d8 and reroll 8s)

[Arturick]

My group uses 4d6 drop low, 6 times, take the best set.  And any set with a total modifier of less than 1 is re-rolled.  Also, we can move a single point from 1 attribute to another (usually to make a 13 into a 12 and a 15 into a 16, or vice versa if you need to qualify for Combat Expertise or something).  It makes character creation take freakin' forever, especially if you don't have an idea of what you want to play.  But on the plus side, it makes for some decently high powered (though not necessarily high-op) games when everybody has 1-2 18's and nothing less than a 10. 

We roll for HP's too, but with a minimum of half your HD (so if a Fighter rolls a 1, it's treated as if he rolled a 5).

That's a nice rolling system, specially the liberty to move 1 point between stats.

My group tend to roll the HD, but only accept 50% of the HD, so if the fighter roll a 1, 2, 3 or 4, you reroll it.

Faster for you to roll 1d6+4, there will be fewer rolls and the results are identical.  Similarly:

1d4 --> 1d3+1 (1d6/2)
1d6 --> 1d4+2
1d8 --> 1d5 + 3 (1d10/2)
1d10 --> 1d6 + 4
1d12 --> 1d7 + 5 (1d8 and reroll 8s)

I do the "Iron Heroes" method.

1d4 = 1d4
1d6 = 1d4+2
1d8 = 1d4+4
1d10 = 1d4+6
1d12 = 1d4+8

[SneeR]

I have never encountered a d7.

[sirpercival]

I have, but they aren't balanced.

[X-Codes]

Point-Buy.
Nothing can destroy a character concept better then unusable stats.

I think quite the opposite.  So long as you have at least 2-3 rolls of 14+, you can make a usable character.  You might not be able to use a particular concept that you wanted to, but you can still do something, and if you're good then you can even do it well.

[SneeR]

Point-Buy.
Nothing can destroy a character concept better then unusable stats.

I think quite the opposite.  So long as you have at least 2-3 rolls of 14+, you can make a usable character.  You might not be able to use a particular concept that you wanted to, but you can still do something, and if you're good then you can even do it well.

See the case of my cursed touch with d6s above. That monk has stats that I normally roll.

[10d10]

Point-Buy.
Nothing can destroy a character concept better then unusable stats.

I think quite the opposite.  So long as you have at least 2-3 rolls of 14+, you can make a usable character.  You might not be able to use a particular concept that you wanted to, but you can still do something, and if you're good then you can even do it well.

See the case of my cursed touch with d6s above. That monk has stats that I normally roll.

Well, with a flexible DM you can always have your way around the bad juju. But yeah PB in this case really helps on that area.

Altho' I really love the thrill of getting high scores on the 4d6 rolling method.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

iirc - waayyy back in the day, the various
3d6 substitute systems got hashed out.

It should be possible to produce a game
that can be balanced by other means
after wildly divergent 3d6 results happen.
Straight 13s and Straight 9s are equally
possible, but clearly require very different
PC construction.

If you happened to be playing a 3d6 rolls first
and then second, design a PC around it, game
it "ought" to work. But it doesn't without massive rework.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

When someone suggests that we roll for stats, I just tell them I'll be taking all 18's then.  When they ask why, then I tell them, "Every character that wasn't perfect killed himself."

Seriously though, point buy wins over rolling, but I prefer to assign a stat array.

Rolling the right way.

[wotmaniac]

I've finally come around to favoring the point buy.  If I'm selecting a person from the world, then goddammit, I'm gonna get the one I want.

I've done all sorts of different rolling though:
1d10 + 10 ("10" counts as zero) ... my favorite
5d6, drop lowest 2
5d4 (from 2e dark sun)
6d4, drop lowest (same as above)
d16 + 2 (I strongly recommend against this)

[bhu]

Point buy.  Absolutely no contest.  Before the concept came about in 3E, I can say in almost every game rolling completely fucked someone in the party in previous editions.  Some part of that was the DM's fault for saying that we rolled once and took what we had, and then someone had to struggle with making a PC with no stat above an 8.   Or everyone was average and someone (through luck or dice cheating) had almost perfect stats, and pretty much didn't need the rest of us as anything but meat shields (can you tell I've played a bit of 1 and 2E?).  I've seen too many games crumble because the players characters were too off balance due to rolling stats to want to go through that crap again.  It either causes jealousy and resentment, or you lose the poor bastard who rolled crap because he's so ineffective he can't do anything, or you get one guy who just suicides his PC's till he gets one with rolls high enough to play what he wants regardless of what in game problems it causes.  The party has finally found the reclusive mage that allows them to accomplish their goal?  Fuck that, Bob tries to kill him because he's playing a Thief with a dex of 9.   Looking forward to the game?  Bully for you, you rolled well, and the other three players the dice shat on decide showing up isn't worth it.   

[Balmas]

There are several methods that I like to use in my campaigns.  The ones that surface more often:

• Roll 24d6 and arrange as desired.
• The eliiite array: 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 arranged as desired
• 5d6 take lowest.

I much prefer that my PCs are as tough as possible so that I as the DM can throw tougher monsters at them without worrying as much.

From a point of game balance though, point buy wins out.

[Bloody Initiate]

I dislike point buy because it creates characters with stupid stats. Dump stats are stupid. Having my character lack any personality, force of will, or sense of self just so I can survive is stupid.

That being said, rolling shitty stats is just as stupid. I've done both.

Really I lean toward the view that having bad stats is really lame, and they aren't that big a deal anyway, so I tend to favor rolling with a very high-power arrangement (Like roll 12 times, take the best 6). It's never that I want mad power, I just get sick of roleplaying retards or otherwise wildly one-dimensional characters. If you use point buy, you are going to dump one or two stats and if you roleplay that stats you end up being a one-dimensional dweeb, which is usually going to make you comically bad in one area. I would rather just have a 10 or 11 in those areas.

If point-buys started at 10, I don't think I'd have a problem with it. Starting at 8 creates all kinds of annoying issues with how you roleplay and how your character interacts with the world. Everyone plays differently, but generally speaking they all let a character's stats influence their view of the character in different ways. So it sucks having that 6 or that 8 right there, because everyone zeroes in on it and gives you shit when you don't act that stupid or that reserved. Everyone also has a different idea of what each stat means, so that 6 in Charisma means you're ugly to one group but just means you have no personality in another group. It doesn't matter who's wrong, because you aren't going to waste the group's time arguing with them. Give me "average" any day, please, because at least then people don't expect anything of you. Point buy almost guarantees that people will look at your stats and decide how THEY want you to roleplay, and you're going to catch shit at one point or another.   Like the view or not, what you end up with is a waste of time.

[Endarire]

I prefer point buy because it means I can play the character I want based on priorities.  (If I lack the points to play what I want, I may roll.)

[10d10]

I dislike point buy because it creates characters with stupid stats. Dump stats are stupid. Having my character lack any personality, force of will, or sense of self just so I can survive is stupid.

That being said, rolling shitty stats is just as stupid. I've done both.

Really I lean toward the view that having bad stats is really lame, and they aren't that big a deal anyway, so I tend to favor rolling with a very high-power arrangement (Like roll 12 times, take the best 6). It's never that I want mad power, I just get sick of roleplaying retards or otherwise wildly one-dimensional characters. If you use point buy, you are going to dump one or two stats and if you roleplay that stats you end up being a one-dimensional dweeb, which is usually going to make you comically bad in one area. I would rather just have a 10 or 11 in those areas.

If point-buys started at 10, I don't think I'd have a problem with it. Starting at 8 creates all kinds of annoying issues with how you roleplay and how your character interacts with the world. Everyone plays differently, but generally speaking they all let a character's stats influence their view of the character in different ways. So it sucks having that 6 or that 8 right there, because everyone zeroes in on it and gives you shit when you don't act that stupid or that reserved. Everyone also has a different idea of what each stat means, so that 6 in Charisma means you're ugly to one group but just means you have no personality in another group. It doesn't matter who's wrong, because you aren't going to waste the group's time arguing with them. Give me "average" any day, please, because at least then people don't expect anything of you. Point buy almost guarantees that people will look at your stats and decide how THEY want you to roleplay, and you're going to catch shit at one point or another.   Like the view or not, what you end up with is a waste of time.

I can see what you mean by that and relate to it. Not only that, I kinda find bizarre that the rest of the party have the same stats as me, only arranged in a different order, so one dumped on Charisma, the other on wisdom, someone on Int... So, somehow, this group of adventurers managed to find someone crippled in a specific area? Okay....

BUT I can only say that because when we go for dice rolling method my DMs tend to be really laid back. Usually by letting us roll as many times as its necessary but under a point roof (so we won't have someone with 6 18's) It really doesn't take that long for everyone to have 6 numbers they're content with and that fits their character...

And if someone is having bad luck, we ask "dude do you wanna someone to roll for you?  " (and usually they do)